D&D 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen Errors

[MerricB]

Originally posted by caecafortuna:

Steve:
 
Thank you for addressing questions on the adventure.  I have been DMing the adventure for AL play and it has been a blast.  The storyline is great.  Kudos to you and Wolf for a great job.  I will look forward to your work on the Necromancer Games project.
 
One clarifying question regarding Episode 3:
 
Room 9, there are two berserkers along with Langdedrosa.  Are the stat blocks for the berserkers accurate?  67 hit points?  That is more than Langdedrosa.  I don't know how a party of four 3rd level characters would be able to prevail.
 
Thanks.

 

[MerricB]

Originally posted by thorbardin:

Thank you steve. Very helpful and just what I was looking for.
 
I don't see any reason why maps today cannot do both jobs. 1) look cool 2) be functional. Hopefully the map illustrators get more elaborate briefs down the line, and provide a systematic way to show important features the DM is supposed to know.  I too remember those old school maps fondly; it was a reason to be pads of graph paper.
 
episode 2: rearguard (pg 15)
Am I right in guessing that the guard listed in this rearguard contingent is actually supposed to be a veteran? 
 

 

[MerricB]

Originally posted by Bumamgar:

Episode 6: Castle Naerytar, p61, area 12. Pharblex's Sanctum:  There is a trapped wooden chest.  Several paragraphs of text are devoted to the description of the trap and its effects, but there is absolutely no mention of the chest's contents.

 

[MerricB]

Originally posted by Bumamgar:

I'm not sure if this is actually an error, but it certainly seems to be odd / inconsistent at the very least.  I've examined the entire adventure, all 8 episodes, and the amount of magical treasure is significantly lower than what is available in the starter set adventure.  Also, many of the items aren't actually intended to be found or obtained by the adventurers, being in the posession of NPCs who are scripted to escape and possibly re-appear in the Rise of Tiamat adventure.
 
Other than a few potions of healing (which are purchasable for 50gp according to the PHB and thus don't actually count as 'magical treasure') there is only one magic item made available to the players prior to level 5 (episode 6), and that is a +1 longbow which only becomes available if a specific random encounter is randomly rolled and the DM selects one of three possible outcomes for that encounter (the other two options resulting in no magical reward at all).  I'm referring to one of the possible options in the Golden Stag encounter, which frankly, is extremely unlikely for the characters to have, but it does technically exist.  Also, there is a typographical error as the +1 longbow is not in italic text as all magic items should be.
 
Beyond that, there are a few items in episode 6 and several more items in episodes 7 and 8.  Again, however, most of the equipable items aren't available to characters the way the module is written.
 
Contrast this with Lost Mine of Phandelver, an adventure that goes from 1st - 5th level (instead of 1st - 8th level).  In that adventure, the party has the potential to find a potion of invisibility, scroll of augury, +1 longsword, scroll of charm person, scroll of fireball and a staff of defense in the second portion of the adventure (all available at level 2), and in the third portion of the adventure , a ring of protection, potion of flying, scroll of darkness, scroll of misty step, scroll of lightning bolt, +1 battleaxe, scroll of silence and a scroll of revivify (all available at level 3), and finally in part 4, a pair of boots of striding and springing, wand of magic missiles, potion of vitality, +1 mace, +1 breastplate, gauntlets of ogre power and a spider staff (all available at level 4).
 
In summary, by the time a party is level 5 in LMoP, they have had access to 3 potions (not counting potions of healing), 8 scrolls, 3 +1 weapons, 1 +1 armor, 2 staves, 1 wand and 3 misc. magic items.
 
In HotDQ, by the time a party is level 8, they have had the potential access to 3 potions (not counting potions of healing), 4 scrolls, 6 +1 weapons (2x +1 longbow), 3 +1 armor, 1 staff, 1 wand, and 5 misc. magic items, however, of that, 1 +1 weapon, 1 +1 armor, 1 wand, 1 staff, 3 scrolls and 2 misc. items are extremely unlikely to actually be acquired by even the most dilligent party due to the way the adventure is scripted to save certain NPCs who are weilding these items, leaving the actual comparison at 3 potions, 1 scroll, 5 +1 weapons, 2 +1 armor, 0 staves, 0 wands, and 3 misc. magic items.
 
This is a difference between the lower level LMoP of 7 scrolls, -2 +1 weapons, -1 +1 armor, 2 staves and 1 wand.  I guess one could argue that two +1 weapons and one +1 armor are the equivalent to 7 scrolls, 2 staves and a wand, but I don't really think so, especially since only one of the +1 weapons (one which is extremely unlikely to actually be present) is available to a party before they are level 5, meaning that for the entire portion of this module which overlaps LMoP, there is effectively no magical loot what-so-ever, and that the items that do drop are only available once a party has achieved level 5!  Add in the fact that most of the +1 weapons in LMoP have secondary effects of some sort (max damage to plant creatures, bonus radiant damage to undead, etc) and only the dagger of venom has a secondary effect in HotDQ, it is clear that the itemization in HotDQ is no where near the same as the lower-level starter set adventure.
 
Is this actually as intended, or, like so many other things with this adventure, the rules for magical items were in such a state of flux during the creation of this module, that they were simply left out of the first 2/3rd of the module?
 
Itemized inventory of items in HotDQ:  (page #, episode, party level, comments)
2x potion of healing (p12, episode 1, L1, consolation prize if a character is defeated in the duel)
+1 longbow (p35, episode 4, L4, if a specific random encounter occurs and if the DM selects this specific outcome)
2x potion of healing, oil of etherealness (p52, episode 6, L5)
dagger of venom (p53, episode 6, L5)
potion of greater healing (p53, episode 6, L5)
2x potion of healing (p67, episode 7, L6)
+1 scale mail, wand of winter (p68, episode 7, L6, only if the characters kill Talis, an option that is unlikely the way the adventure is written)
Dragongleam a rusty spear with 10 charges of the daylight spell but no combat effect (p69, episode 7, L6)
+1 chain mail (p69, episode 7, L6)
scroll of scorching ray (p69, episode 7, L6)
arrow-catching shield (p71, episode 7, L6)
tankard of plenty (p74, episode 8, L7, extremely unlikely to be obtained by party)
black dragon mask (p80, episode 8, L7, extremely unlikely to be obtained by party)
insignia of claws, Hazirawn (p80, episode 8, L7)
scroll of dimension door, scroll of feather fall, scroll of fireball, staff of fire (p80, episode 8, L7, extremely unlikely to be obtained by party)
bag of holding (p84, episode 8, L7)
potion of gaseous form, +1 longsword, +1 longbow, +1 leather armor, and bracers of defense (p86, episode 8, L7)

 

[MerricB]

Originally posted by Bumamgar:

There are currently no rules resolving how to handle intelligent magic items with an alignment in opposition to the weilder.  I assume these will eventually be in the DMG (in November!) however, given that there is an intelligent, evil magic item in HotDQ that it is reasonable to assume will actually fall into the character's possession, it would be nice to have some rules to adjucate this event.
 
In the playtest, these rules were put forth as optional:
 
Test of Wills. An intelligent or cursed magic item might resist any attempt to remove it, let go of it, attune to it, or end its attunement.  Any such conflict is resolved as a Charisma contest between the magic item and its user.  If the user fails to win the contest, he or she is forbidden from taking the specified action; however, another attempt can be made after 24 hours have elapsed.  If the intelligent or cursed item does not have a specified Charisma score, assume it has Charisma 10 and a +0 modifier to its Charisma checks.
 
Is the assumption in HotDQ that these rules are in effect?

Originally posted by Bumamgar:

Page 94:  Hazirwan is listed as 'requires attunement', but it doesn't actually require attunement, rather, it becomes more powerful if it is attuned.
Page 94: Wand of Winter is not listed as 'requires attunement', but it actually does (the item's descriptive text specifies it, even though the summary line does not).

 

[MerricB]

Originally posted by trystero11:

A big thank-you to Steve Winter for answering questions about Hoard of the Dragon Queen here: I appreciate getting feedback from one of the book's authors.
 
I'll throw in two questions of my own, both about numbers of creatures and both looking like they were missed in editing:
 

• In areas 1I, 1J, and 1K (p. 53), are there a total of twelve lizardfolk guards in the tower, as noted in the first paragraph of 1I, or twenty, as suggested by adding the figures from 1J and 1K? I'm assuming it's twenty.
• And in area 3E (p. 57), are there six specters, as suggested in the first paragraph of the area description, or just three, as suggested by the next paragraph? I'm assuming it's six, since three CR1 specters are a pretty weak challenge for a 5th-level party, but it'd be nice to know for sure.

Originally posted by MonsterEnvy:

Rath Modar is supposed to be CR 7 correct. As he is a step above the fellow CR 6 mage in everyway.

 

[MerricB]

Originally posted by Huscarl:

episode 2: rearguard (pg 15)Am I right in guessing that the guard listed in this rearguard contingent is actually supposed to be a veteran? 

Yes. The power level attached to the name "Guard" fluctuated more than once. 
 

Episode 6: Castle Naerytar, p61, area 12. Pharblex's Sanctum:  There is a trapped wooden chest.  Several paragraphs of text are devoted to the description of the trap and its effects, but there is absolutely no mention of the chest's contents.

Wow, you're absolutely right. Here's what was written for that chest: "Pharblex retires to this chamber to study two spellbooks that he stole from Dalmarror Borngray's library (area 2N). These are valuable arcane resources, and Borngray and Rezmir would be furious if they learned the books were missing. One belonged to a 7th-level wizard and contains spells up to level 4. The other was written by a 9th-level wizard and contains spells up to level 5. Being arcane spells, the magic is beyond Pharblex's ability to learn or cast; his lust for power is great enough to keep him puzzling over the text and hoping for a breakthrough." I don't know whether that text was cut accidentally or on purpose, or whether it happened during our editing process or during Wizards'. 
 

 I've examined the entire adventure, all 8 episodes, and the amount of magical treasure is significantly lower than what is available in the starter set adventure. ... Is this actually as intended, or, like so many other things with this adventure, the rules for magical items were in such a state of flux during the creation of this module, that they were simply left out of the first 2/3rd of the module?

It's a bit of both, plus a large dose of a third element. The rules for magical items were set well enough but the rules for treasure in general were unsettled. The "game world economy" was still unaddressed -- just how much treasure should characters receive, ever? As a measure of how open that question was, according to the treasure tables in the draft version of the DMG as it existed at that time, characters would need to loot the lairs of two ancient red dragons to scoop up enough gold to buy one suit of plate armor in town. Obviously, that treasure table is not to be trusted. Fine-tuning the game's economy and finalizing those treasure tables was a low priority for the Wizards crew at that time, and I can't fault them for that. They had much bigger fish to fry during those months.
 
With the question unresolved, every indication at that time was that we should err on the side of stinginess rather than generosity, especially since 5E's foundation of bounded accuracy doesn't rely on magical bonuses for characters to keep pace with foes. So we went stingy on treasure. I'm more to blame in that regard than Wolf is, because he's naturally more generous than I am. I might neglect to include treasure at all if I wasn't forced to occasionally. (Like many people who played in the bad old days of AD&D, I saw more campaigns ruined by characters accumulating too much magical treasure than by cars, girlfriends, and religious fundamentalists combined.) The philosophy was, it's easier for DMs to add more treasure to suit their campaigns than it is for them to take treasure away. That probably should have been stated explicitly somewhere. 
 

I'll throw in two questions of my own, both about numbers of creatures and both looking like they were missed in editing:
 

• In areas 1I, 1J, and 1K (p. 53), are there a total of twelve lizardfolk guards in the tower, as noted in the first paragraph of 1I, or twenty, as suggested by adding the figures from 1J and 1K? I'm assuming it's twenty.
• And in area 3E (p. 57), are there six specters, as suggested in the first paragraph of the area description, or just three, as suggested by the next paragraph? I'm assuming it's six, since three CR1 specters are a pretty weak challenge for a 5th-level party, but it'd be nice to know for sure.

I believe 20 lizardfolk was meant to be the final number.
 
The tower chamber as originally written contained three specters, but unless you're crafty with them, PCs might destroy three very quickly. I recommend using as many as you think will make a good fight for your characters, and describe that number of dead bodies in the room. Remember, however, that this fight can be considerably more difficult than straight numbers imply. Characters are confined to a small tower chamber and a very treacherous set of narrow stairs above an offal pit with an otyugh in it, while the specters can phase up and down through the floor and roof and in and out through the walls. If they chose to, the specters could simply hover outside the tower, waiting for characters to pick their way back down the stairs, with the specters clawing at them through the walls all the way down. If I were running it, the specters would wait in their corpses until everyone is preoccupied in the upper room, then they'd drift unnoticed down through the floor and attack with surprise by clawing up at PCs through the floorboards. There's plenty in that situation for the DM to have fun with.
 
Steve
 

 

[MerricB]

Originally posted by TheLyons:

I'm a bit curious as to how balanced the areas are for the levels they are intended for I am planning on running characters through and am worried a few places may be too much but I could be way off. My players are smart and don't run headlong into fights they are sure they can't win. But I am more wondering if some areas are unintentionally harder than intended. I'm not trying to make commentary here, I genuinely don't have a clue either way.Are there any encounters that you think you should have toned down, but only knew after MM was finalized and it was too late to edit?

 

[MerricB]

Originally posted by Huscarl:

TheLyons wrote:I'm a bit curious as to how balanced the areas are for the levels they are intended for I am planning on running characters through and am worried a few places may be too much but I could be way off. My players are smart and don't run headlong into fights they are sure they can't win. But I am more wondering if some areas are unintentionally harder than intended. I'm not trying to make commentary here, I genuinely don't have a clue either way. Are there any encounters that you think you should have toned down, but only knew after MM was finalized and it was too late to edit?

 
As noted somewhere on these boards, the encounter "No Room at the Inn" in episode 4 is way deadlier than it ought to be. I don't recommend playing it as it stands. Find my earlier response on that for advice on how to fix it. 
 
Otherwise, I don't think there are any encounters that characters can't get through somehow. That doesn't mean they can overcome every encounter through violence -- but see my sig line for my feeling about that. Wizards has made it clear throughout the development of 5E that D&D stands on three legs -- combat, exploration, and interaction. If characters run into a situation they can't win through with combat, then they need to try something else. It really is that simple. Is a situation unfair because characters can't defeat it with their swords, when they haven't explored other options? In HotDQ, "hit it" is the wrong response to many situations, just as it is in real life. 
 
Beyond that, there's the issue that an encounter that's tough but balanced for one party can be a suicide trap for another and a skate through the park for a third. Typing away at our desks in the great Pacific Northwest, we don't know how many players are sitting around your table, how experienced they are, what situations their characters are optimized for (if they're optimized at all), or how much and what type of magic they're packing. Unless you have a game where every group of characters adheres tightly to a narrow power curve -- and I expect we all remember clearly how popular that was during the 4E years -- then the idea that remote designers can build one encounter that's perfect for every table of D&D players around the globe is a bit far-fetched. 
 
In other words, the only person who's really qualified to judge whether an encounter is balanced for a group of characters is that group's DM. I suppose that sounds a bit like me saying, "It's not my job, man," but that's the reality of the situation as I see it. And it always has been, even when publishers try to claim it's not. 
 
Steve
 
 

 

[MerricB]

Originally posted by trystero11:

Huscarl wrote:As noted somewhere on these boards, the encounter "No Room at the Inn" in episode 4 is way deadlier than it ought to be. I don't recommend playing it as it stands. Find my earlier response on that for advice on how to fix it. 

I can't seem to find that post of yours using the Community search engine, but I assume it's the one that Bantam summarizes here(x):

Bantam wrote:I believe one of the writers for the book stated that they originally put in slaads, but had to change it as there wasn't gonna be any slaads in the adventure. Changed it to assassins for the encounter, but they were originally a lot lower CR before the final version. Suggested to swap it out with veterans or something else that's CR 3-4.

 
(I'm just trying to get all corrections into this one thread for easy reference.)