Hold Person vs Boots of Flying

[Belbarrus]

Good post Hypersmurf. Normally in my game when a "difference" of opinion arises, if the player is unable to point out a reference in the rules that supports their claim, then the DM makes a ruling to end the debate. Later, if the player finds a resource supporting their claim, then, of course, that rule is used from then on. Otherwise, we go with the DM ruling. End of story.

I guess the problem here is that we have no DM (OR we are *all* DMs, hehe).




PS what's the story with the "rusty-handaxe-vs-+5-longbow"? I've heard of the other discussions....

 

[Hypersmurf]

PS what's the story with the "rusty-handaxe-vs-+5-longbow"? I've heard of the other discussions....

It just came up again here...

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: Re: Re: Oh geez you guys

A fighter using a helm of teleportation is not moving; he's using a Standard Action to Activate a Magic Item.

The Standard Action allows a move as well, but because he is Held, he cannot move.

A Held wizard could use the Cast a Spell Standard Action to cast a Still, Silent, Eschewed Fly spell.

The Standard Action allows a move as well - using his base speed or his Fly speed - but because he is Held, he cannot move.

-Hyp.

Under the "you can't think about moving" theory, the helm wouldn't be an option. You wouldn't be in the same spot, after all.

What type of action really isn't relevant to the discussion though. The only real question remains "Is movement by the fly spell physical or mental" The question of how much you can do in a round or how it is codified in the round can't change that question.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh geez you guys

What type of action really isn't relevant to the discussion though.

I disagree.

The text of Held says you can't move.

The way Fly works is that as part of a Standard Action, you can move your (Fly) speed.

Since you can't move while Held, Fly doesn't work.

Teleportation is not "moving" in the "What type of action?" sense of the word.

Neither is Telekinesis or Levitation.

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What dead debate? Their aint no dead debates here!

I'm away from my PHB, and the SRD culls all the descriptive text. But it goes into it in detail at the beginning of the chapter. Starting on the yellow page just before the table of Str vs Max Load.

-Hyp.

PH, pg 141 "If you are wearing armor, use the worse figure (from armor or from weight) for each catagory [of encumbrance]. Do not stack the penalties."

Sounds like it is all encumbrance, just different sorces.

 

[LokiDR]

Damn it! Customer Service agrees with me, I must be wrong

-Hyp.

Ya, that doesn't help your case

Then again, there is a non-zero chance they can get an answer right. They didn't site any rules. It sounds like they (as they seem to do) just made something up. I don't think this really adds much to the rules discussion, as I'm sure we have collectively put more effort into this than they did when answering the call.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: LOL@Hyp

- an ethereal creature (able to "move in any direction (including up or down) at will" - DMG p76)
....

Just my two cents (and yes, I read every post in this thread ... yikes). I don't know that I'd call it a House Rule -- in my campaign, this would be filed under "Rules Interpretation"

The etheral bit would be classifed as a house rule, as it clearly says it is at will. If "will" is now a physical action, I'll eat my shorts.

There has been far too much discussion on this topic for me to believe that either side can be called official, at least where fly and hold spells are concerned. I will hold that levitate, TK, teleport and other spells fall firmly within the "purely mental actions" clause of Hold Person.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: LOL@Hyp

I will hold that levitate, TK, teleport and other spells fall firmly within the "purely mental actions" clause of Hold Person.

I agree with you there. Levitate and Telekinesis are applying an external force - even if it's you controlling them, it's the same as having Bob the Fighter pick you up and carry you.

Teleportation isn't "moving".

But I still maintain that moving by Flying differs from Levitate or Telekinesis in that it's not an external force acting on you.

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

It just came up again here...

-Hyp.

Is it a coincindence that I brought up that point in that thread? AoOs, Sundering bows, fly spell while held. Man, Hyp, we just can't agree on anything.

Ravellion -

God this thread is fun! I don't understand why people watch football if they can read threads like these instead!

Rav "Loki DR supporter"

I do all I can for the fans

 

[Bauglir]

Agreed