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Holding non-Paladins to their class vows
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7822767" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I don't want to burst your bubble too much, but Norse shamanism is a thoroughly modern reconstruction of ancient beliefs of which we have only the most marginal knowledge of their actual practice. But in general, shamanism is perfect case in point here. The shaman's power comes from making bargains with beings in the spirit world, who then allow the shaman to be a vessel for their power. The shaman may possess esoteric knowledge of how to please, coerce, or manipulate these beings, but they and not him are the source of the power.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok, I'll grant you that with Eastern philosophies it becomes a bit more complicated, as there are several pantheistic eastern philosophies that hold that everything is divine and individuality is an illusion. If you believe that, then it proceeds that by giving up the self in various ways, you can tap into the cosmic divinity. However, I'm not going to pretend to have a lot of knowledge of Eastern esoteric practice, except to note that much of it may be more modern than you realize. And in any event, we aren't talking about Oaths when we are talking about Zen oneness meditation, and we are certainly not talking about people trying to get what they want by thinking hard about it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7822767, member: 4937"] I don't want to burst your bubble too much, but Norse shamanism is a thoroughly modern reconstruction of ancient beliefs of which we have only the most marginal knowledge of their actual practice. But in general, shamanism is perfect case in point here. The shaman's power comes from making bargains with beings in the spirit world, who then allow the shaman to be a vessel for their power. The shaman may possess esoteric knowledge of how to please, coerce, or manipulate these beings, but they and not him are the source of the power. Ok, I'll grant you that with Eastern philosophies it becomes a bit more complicated, as there are several pantheistic eastern philosophies that hold that everything is divine and individuality is an illusion. If you believe that, then it proceeds that by giving up the self in various ways, you can tap into the cosmic divinity. However, I'm not going to pretend to have a lot of knowledge of Eastern esoteric practice, except to note that much of it may be more modern than you realize. And in any event, we aren't talking about Oaths when we are talking about Zen oneness meditation, and we are certainly not talking about people trying to get what they want by thinking hard about it. [/QUOTE]
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