Holding the charge on a Ray

[Herzog]

Example: Disrupt undead.

Trying to attack an Allip with this, but missing.

Am I still holding the charge? (as in, is my spell lost after missing or can I attempt to touch again without having to cast again?)

 

[Dandu]

I think you lose it.

 

[frankthedm]

Don't confuse spells with a range of Touch with rays and other spells that use Ranged Touch as a delivery method. Touch and ranged touch are not interchangeable terms.

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge
In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If a ray spell has a duration, it’s the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists.

 

[Herzog]

Then what about the section Touch Spells in Combat (p. 140 of the player handbook)?

It specifically mentions this:

Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks (for touches made with, say, your hand) and ranged touch attacks (for touches made with magic rays, for example).​

this:

Holding the Charge:​

​

​

If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round.​

and this:

Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

What I want to know is, if you are NOT making a normal unarmed attack, but attempt to make a Touch Attack, and you miss (either miss the Touch AC or miss because of concealment), are you still holding the Charge?

If you don't want to get into the Touch/Ranged Touch discussion, please answer the question when considering Shocking Grasp instead.

 

[frankthedm]

If you don't want to get into the Touch/Ranged Touch discussion, please answer the question when considering Shocking Grasp instead.

Missing with a touch range shocking grasp would leave the caster with a held charge.

Related thread.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/25282-ranged-touch-attack-broken.html

 

[Herzog]

After reading that thread (and disagreeing with the reasoning, but I'm not going to reply to a thread from 2002...) and re-reading the rules, I've come to the following conclusion (which is similar to the reasoning in the thread, but not the same....):


1. The section is about 'Touch Spells'. Therefore, all sub-entries apply to touch spells. Touch spells are clarified to be spells with Range:Touch.(although they could have been more specific)
2. One of the sub-entries handles the attack roll to make, 'Touch Attacks'. For some reason, the writers found it necessary to clarify there are to types of Touch Attacks, Ranged Touch attacks and Melee Touch Attacks.(in a section that has nothing to do with Ranged Touch Attacks).
3. One of the sub-entries handles 'Holding the Charge'. Because of point 1, this refers to Touch Spells.

Conclusion: Ray spells are not the subject of this section. Therefore, this section does not clarify whether you can hold the charge on a ray spell.
Since 'holding the charge' is an 'exception' rule, unless another rule specifies you can hold the charge on a ray, you cannot hold the charge on a ray.