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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 7159704" data-attributes="member: 58172">This thread is a thought experiment for what an ‘ideal’ ability score system might look like. I am motivated by interesting things that other gaming systems have done, and by possible solutions to perennial issues. I also want to see what others are thinking about the ability score system.Cypher made size (what it calls ‘Might’) an ability. This seems useful. A Large character simply has a high ‘Size’ score, and a Small character a low score. So the advantages of Large size, including reach, are balanced by the need to invest resources to boost Size, at the cost of having less to spend on the other abilities. Possibly, a Size bonus of +0 to +1 is Small; +2 to +3 is Medium; and +4 to +5 is Large. Or something like that. For example, the Ogre is Large and has a bonus of +4 (score 19). The Mountain and Hill Dwarves are unusual, in that they are shorter but with higher Size. They have more mass, being extremely broad and stout, and also have a nonhuman metabolism that results in their body having hard stone-like density. Size corresponds to the weightclass of combat sports, where being big and having long arms reach are decisively advantageous. Generally Size corresponds to the height and weight of a human athletic build, but sometimes it is better to extend it to muscle mass in cases where a person is tall but emaciated or obese, or so on.An other interesting idea is how AGE decouples the attack bonus from the damage bonus, and assigns them to separate abilities. Here in this thread, the Ogre might have a high score in Size thus deal heavy damage if it hits, but have a low score in agile Athletics, thus making clumsy attempts to hit.Hopefully each ability is equally useful for combat mechanics. So, they are balanced as good options for a game that tends to feature combat. There should also be minimal overlap, so it is clear which ability applies and which do not, in any situation.Constitution is a passive boring ability, that active abilities can cover. And so on.So far, this is an ability set that I am exploring.Ability FivesomeAthletics: Can you do something because you are ‘quick and sporty’?Size: Can you do something because you are ‘big and tough’?Perception: Can you do something because you are ‘sensorial and surgical’?Intelligence: Can you do something because you are ‘knowledgeable and intuitive’?Charm: Can you do something because you are ‘social and willful’?AthleticsBody mobility, coordination, jump, tumble, speed, fitness, stamina, gross motor skills.• Attack bonus to melee attack• Attack bonus to thrown weapon• Attack bonus to unarmed attack• Attack bonus to grapple versus Size• Attack bonus to shove versus Size• Initiative bonus• Gymnastic check to jump, climb• Gymnastic check to catch from falling, or to roll landing after falling• Gymnastic tumble movement thru hostile space• Gymnastic check to balance, during movement or keeping still• Gymnastic check to perform a stunt• Bonus to charge attack• Reflex save to dodge to avoid hit• Quick draw• Sleight of hand (pickpocketing, distracting audience while finessing a legerdemain trick)• AC bonus if no armor, or light or mediumSizeSize, brute force, and toughness.• Long reach in melee combat• Damage bonus to melee attack• Damage bonus to unarmed attack• Damage bonus to thrown weapon (but not light weapon)• Bonus to resist shove• Bonus to break out of gappling hold• Hit point bonus while leveling• Prereq to use heavy weapons• Prereq to use heavy armors• Bonus to push• Lift, carry, push, pull• Hit dice to refresh after combat• Fortitude save to withstand punishment• Stamina check for lengthy endurance stunt• Health check versus poison or diseasePerceptionPhysical senses, slow sensitive movements, precision, steady hand, fine motor skills.• Perception versus Stealth to determine surprise• Attack bonus to ranged attack (bow, crossbow, gun)• Attack bonus versus unaware or helpless (including Sneak Attack)• Passive perception defense versus hidden, invisible, obscured, faint• Perception check versus hidden, invisible, obscured, faint• Stealth check to hide, move quietly• Medicine check to stabilize dying• Manual dexterity check to disable a trap• Manual dexterity check to set a trap• Disguise check to sculpt a convincing mask or replicate a forgery• Perception check to see thru disguise• Disbelieve save versus illusion• Illusion sensory magic.IntelligenceKnowing, intuition, education, memory, discernment, understanding, calculation, anticipation.• Damage bonus to ranged attack (bow, crossbow, gun)• Damage bonus versus unaware or helpless (including Sneak Attack)• Knowledge check for weakness in target (low ability, damage type vulnerability)• Knowledge check to discern if creature is Undead• After Perception: Investigate check to recognize/discern what is going on from obscure clue• Deception check to falsify plausible information• Lucidity save versus confusion• Intuition check to get a ‘vibe’, or discern/deduce a special insight, for unknown situation• Arcane check to identify spell effects• Wizard scholarly magic• Cleric intuitive magicCharmSocial skills, sense of self, empathy, willpower, and influence.• Willpower save versus charm, fear, domination• Sanity save versus madness, corruption, etcetera• Persuasion check to avoid combat, end combat, or gain ally in combat• Intimidation check to avoid combat, end combat, or gain ally in combat• Empathy insight check to identify mood and motive• Performance check to distract a targets attention• Check to find best person to talk to to extract information• Inspiration to boost morale• Bard social magic• Paladin willpower magicThis is a thread for theory crafting and exploration. So feel free to discuss any merits of various ability score systems from various gaming systems, including the D&D six. For example, I love how Cortex Prime uses several abilities for any one effort, whichever apply narratively, then choosing the highest two to determine success. But I am unsure how to do this in D&D with d20s. Sometimes the explorations can be useful for D&D, or inspire ideas that are useful. But if not that is ok too.</blockquote>

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