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Message: <blockquote data-quote="goldenskull" data-source="post: 9384049" data-attributes="member: 7045950">Fair enough. I'll math out both scenarios together for you, assuming Tough feat and thugs have initiative (just like the fighter).Tough Monk with 12 Con at 27hp, going last in init just like the fighter vs 32 hp each:Thugs get precisely 9.862 DPR. Monk's DPR 15.2 with flurry and 10.15 without.1st: Thugs hit for full dpr; monk is at 17.138. Monk disengages as an action, bonus flurries for 10.1 and kites 40ft. Thug 1 is at 21.9.2nd: Thugs dodge. Monk kites back and attacks + flurries with disadvantage for 11.56. Thug 1 is at 10.34.3rd: First thug to act maneuvers into position and prepares multiattack. Second thug goes too and procs 4x for 9.862. Monk is at 7.276. Monk disengages as an action, bonus flurries for 10.1 and Thug 1 is close but not guaranteed down at 0.24 expected hp. Let's be fair to Thug 1 and say he's still up with 1 hp.4th: Thug 1 kites backwards 10ft and prepares attack. Thug 2 holds steady and prepares attacks as well, hoping to draw threat - maybe screaming "COME AT ME YE COWARD" or "I'LL BUGGER YER MOTHAR". Monk doesn't take the bait and dashes as an action to finish off Thug 1 with a bonus attack, but takes 1.31709 in the process. Thug 1 is down and Monk is at 5.985891.Note: if you DID take the bait, you'd be dead on round 5.5th: Thug 2 moves forward and multiattacks for 1.31709. Monk is at 4.64182. Monk juice ran out 2 rounds ago, so Monk deals 10.15 to put Thug 2 at 21.85.6th: Thug 2 deals 1.31709 again to bring monk to 3.32473. Monk hits back for another 10.15 to put Thug 2 at 11.7.7th: Thug 2 deals 1.31709 again to bring monk to 2hp. Monk hits back for 10.15 to put Thug 2 at 1.55.8th: Thug 2 deals 1.31709 again to bring monk to 0.6829hp or - just as fair as we were to Thug 1 - 1hp. Monk downs Thug 2.It's an extremely close win with a razor-thin margin for error, just like the halberd fighter. With just the Tough feat and without trying to kite, Monk would have dropped the thugs 2 rounds earlier. Kiting just means you sacrifice 1 attack half your turns and then nerf the power of your flurry going against a dodge in the other half (if your DM has more than room-temp IQ).Like I said: monks need hp. That 14 Con is absolutely crucial to an effective build.EDIT: Also, realistically, trying to kite these guys while in a full party just means they gang up on the wizard instead and then pound-town you 4-to-1 when the pointy hat is dead. The monk has always been a "selfish" class in this way.I mean... a build that wouldn't have at least ONE secondary ability at 14 would be a really weird flex, but ok.Edit: An OPTIMAL build would be 16Wis/16Con - just like that fighter - or 16Wis/16Dex/14Con, with +8 in ASI's but that's not strictly necessary.The secondary stat just gives you +1 damage/AC/Saves situationally and it's entirely reasonable - for instance - to take Eldtrich Devil's Sight at 4th to synergize with Darkness instead of +2Wis/Dex/Str. Something like Elven Accuracy or Resilient or Alert could also absolutely be worth the cost of ending your run with 18 or 16 in your secondary stat. I mean... does every Paladin have 20Cha by level 20?</blockquote>

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