Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Clint_L" data-source="post: 9385940" data-attributes="member: 7035894">Okay, so we are for some reason assuming that an important test of the monk is how well it can tank two thugs at level 3?1) Should a monk be as good a tank as a fighter or barbarian at level 3? Should they be as mobile as a monk?2) Why 2 thugs? Multiple opponents with multiple attacks obviously favours a tank with constant damage reduction (i.e. barbarian). What about a single opponent with 1-2 hard-hitting attacks, like an owlbear?3) Why level 3? Why not, say, level 20, where the UA monk is easily the best tank in the game?4) Why do you play the monk so poorly?Because in spite of you choosing a test that plays to the monk's weaknesses, it still outperforms a level 3 fighter.Let's assume the monk goes first. They have higher dex than the thugs, and are much more mobile. Since you keep bringing up a wizard, let's assume the monk sees the threat and charges out to keep them away from a weaker party member, classic tank style. I'll do the math in my head but it'll be pretty accurate. Also, I just gave the monk a 12 con, so at level 3 they have 21 HP (9+6+6), AC 16. You have generously given the fighter splint, but I won't bother giving the monk a cloak of protection or whatever as they won't need it.Round 1: Monk goes full offence, and attacks 1 thug with FoB for an average of 16 damage (1d8+3, 1d6+3, 1d6+3 x 1.05 x .75). Both thugs attack back, hitting (a bit generously, since they only have 45% chance to hit with each attack) once each for 11 damage total (5.5+5.5), EXCEPT the monk immediately deflects one of those attacks as a reaction (1d10+3+3) and spends a di to do another 7 damage to the injured thug (2d6).End of round 1: Monk is at 15 HP (I rounded down, to give the thugs every chance), thug 1 is at 9 HP, thug 2 is at 32 HP.Round 2: Monk annihilates thug 1. They can FoB if they miss with their initial quarterstaff attack, but otherwise they save the last di point; it is now more effective if saved for deflect attack. Thug 2 hits once (again, being slightly generous) and the monk casually deflects it. If they have the extra di they can spend it now to speed up the inevitable, though it doesn't really matter as the single thug is not much of a threat.Rounds 3+: monk kills the thug at their leisure. If they've been unlucky and the thugs got in an extra hit or two, the monk can just take the dodge action while attacking with their bonus action, which combined with deflect attacks makes them almost impervious to the single thug, though it will slow down the monk's pretty inevitable victory.Edit: If you think it is unfair to let the monk go first, we can say the thugs sprang an ambush and BOTH go first, in which case the monk is at 10 HP when the first thug dies, and after that the fight is basically over, as above. It doesn't make much difference; in some ways it is easier for the monk as they can do deflect attack damage twice onto thug 1, which at this level is more reliable and a bit more damage than using di for FoB.TLDR: Even in your cherry-picked test, the UA monk easily outperforms the fighter at level 3 as a tank. Should a monk be outperforming a fighter as a tank, even when the fighter has given up considerable offence to tank, and the monk has not?You are really not understanding how much of a game-changer deflect attacks is for monk survivability, not to mention the ability, from level 1, to take the dodge action and still attack as a bonus action. It so much exceeds having a few more hit points that it's not even a comparison.For fun, I welcome you to simulate my current UA Way of Mercy monk at level 20, with just my current magic items (bracers, ring of protection, eldritch claw tattoos) solo tanking a CR 24 ancient red dragon (hint: she finishes off the dragon and is still at full health).</blockquote>

Verification