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Message: <blockquote data-quote="goldenskull" data-source="post: 9386444" data-attributes="member: 7045950">I mean... those are ideas. I don't know if any of these restrictions are worth in game value what they cost in word count.My gut feeling is that - if this ability is only going to give you three spells of 1st, 2nd and 3rd - why restrict it further? It doesn't even give a cantrip, you know?As I already explained to you, this is only true if you have an extremely lenient and/or inexperienced DM. You said that a monk could solo an ancient dragon and I gave you plenty of reasons why that's not true.If I had the mental energy right now, I could even demonstrate for you how a basic 20th Level halberdier would slice your 20th level Revised Monk into ribbons with just two feats.I'm sorry for not taking your hypothetical combat scenario seriously, but I feel that I'm entitled to after having gone through the painstaking effort of actually calculating DPR with Deflect Blows - which was a spectacular PITA in Anydice and then Excel - while you're just making vague suggestions on the fly without having factored in advantage and crits etc. (for instance, there's a 36.97% chance of at least one crit from the thugs per round)And you evidently didn't read my combat scenarios either, or you would have noticed that the Revised Monk only performs as well as a PAM Halberdier with 14 Con and Tough at 1st level. You were the one who very confidently said that Revised Monks absolutely don't need Con.Because this perfectly illustrates the weakness of a monk in the party:It's an anti-tank. Deflect Blows and dodge-attack encourages enemies to target other party members first.Only a very generous DM - or one using encounter mobs of animalistic intelligence - will patiently slap exactly one enemy with one or two attacks in front of the monk and let you slowly wear it down. The Revised Monk is a strong and roughly balanced class whose powers are frontloaded to early and middle levels, which is nice because most campaigns tap out around 10th. But it's not the super greatest class in the game mega OP awesome sauce.With that said, I will admit there's a decent chance that Deflect Blows will be severely nerfed come the end of UA.Edit: Also... I haven't even LOOKED at the Revised Fighter. Considering the vanilla fighter measures up well to the Revised Monk, I wouldn't be surprised if the new fighter is straight-up better - especially at higher levels.As I said, the point of a tank is to draw threat, not to push threat onto other party members (what the revised monk actually does most of the time). If you want to talk up the Revised Monk as a tank, at least you should mention grappling and dragging and shoving. Instead (?I'm pretty sure?) you brought up kiting... which is the opposite of tanking.I suggest you read this great article about <a href="https://rpgbot.net/the-tank-fallacy/" target="_blank">The Tank Fallacy</a>. I also am really feeling what Treantmonk said in his old <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaqq7iZUmMk" target="_blank">monk analysis video </a>about how people keep cycling through various arguments about the monk and ignore evidence at each step.1) I never said otherwise - the revised monk is a good class, that I just don't like the flavor and I think people overestimate how good it is2) My class doesn't give the monk higher HP3) I don't even know why any of this is worth this level of argument over4) I'm going to decline as politely as I can to engage with you any further, since you seem rather emotional and it feels like you're not debating entirely in good faith</blockquote>

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