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<blockquote data-quote="goldenskull" data-source="post: 9390145" data-attributes="member: 7045950">This is one good point. Let's do the math assuming no modifiers.A high-level monk can force a Lich to use at least 1LR roughly 80% of the time per turn if flurrying and stunning each time. The odds of using up 2LR is 41.8%. The odds of using up all 3LR is 11.48%. The odds of actually stunning is 1.3%. The monk can keep this pace up a total of 3 turns, 4 if level 20 (taking into account miss chance and not including AO's: 4.25 turns at level 17, 5 turns at level 20). Once that ki is gone, it's providing less than half the value of any other class.But.... does math... a competently-built high-level fighter will deal an average 88.47 on the first turn and - not factoring in crits - can kill a lich 71.97% of the time on the second turn. Also at least a 2.66% chance of one-shot, more than double the chance of a monk's stun.The monk has 36.85% the nova DPR of a fighter and 77.72% the hit points. The fighter has a maximum 16% chance of failing to save vs paralyzing touch... the monk has a 45% chance (edit: unless spending ki for a 20.25% chance fail).The vanilla monk can do some pretty cool things in niche situations, but overall it's weaker compared to other classes - even when burning ki to nova out.EDIT: Also any lich or archmage or caster BB worth their salt (i.e. not the garbage in the MM) will have much smarter spell selection. Forcecage --&gt; bye bye melee and it's not even concentration.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="goldenskull, post: 9390145, member: 7045950"] This is one good point. Let's do the math assuming no modifiers. A high-level monk can force a Lich to use at least 1LR roughly 80% of the time per turn if flurrying and stunning each time. The odds of using up 2LR is 41.8%. The odds of using up all 3LR is 11.48%. The odds of actually stunning is 1.3%. The monk can keep this pace up a total of 3 turns, 4 if level 20 (taking into account miss chance and not including AO's: 4.25 turns at level 17, 5 turns at level 20). Once that ki is gone, it's providing less than half the value of any other class. But.... [I]does math[/I]... a competently-built high-level fighter will deal an average 88.47 on the first turn and - not factoring in crits - can kill a lich 71.97% of the time on the second turn. Also at least a 2.66% chance of one-shot, more than double the chance of a monk's stun. The monk has 36.85% the nova DPR of a fighter and 77.72% the hit points. The fighter has a maximum 16% chance of failing to save vs paralyzing touch... the monk has a 45% chance (edit: unless spending ki for a 20.25% chance fail). The vanilla monk can do some pretty cool things in niche situations, but overall it's weaker compared to other classes - even when burning ki to nova out. EDIT: Also any lich or archmage or caster BB worth their salt (i.e. not the garbage in the MM) will have much smarter spell selection. Forcecage --> bye bye melee and it's not even concentration. [/QUOTE]

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