Homebrew culture problem

[Tauric]

Okay, so I'm creating a homebrew world with no elves (because neither I nor several of my players like them) and no dwarves (same reason).

I was writing up some descriptions of the human nations/kingdoms/cultures, using knowledge picked up in college and other places. Here is a brief description of two:

One kingdom was based (loosely, mind you) on a sort of Germanic-Gothic-Celtic (esp. 12th c. Welsh) vibe. Personality-wise they are taciturn and reserved, living in tight-knit clans. Their arts tend toward crafted items, like gold jewelry and carved wooden objects. Architecture was going to be Romanesque, made of dark stone with massive facades.

Another nation was based (again, loosely) on early Renaissance Italy. Passionate and creative, arts tending toward literature and painting, brightly colored buildings reaching skyward.

However, as I got deeper into these two cultures, I realized that they were uncomfortably close to stereotypical dwarves and elves, respectively.

So, my question to you, O ENWorld, is this:

Should I soldier on, and hope my players don't notice the similarities that I have, or should I put the demi-humans back in the game (the dwarves, at least)?

Any input is appreciated.

 

[Nyaricus]

Well, why don't you players like dwarves and elves? Why should you players like your Welsh and Italian-esque human nations?

Personally, don't "soldier" ahead because you feel you must - continue on you path if you feel it is right.

It sounds like you have a good start, so don't let go of what works

cheers,
--N

 

[VirgilCaine]

As long as the "Elves" don't live in trees or claim to love Nature or practice druidic magic and the others don't live underground, have beards...

 

[Nikroecyst]

I find the reasons I don't like elfs and dwarfs are simply the way they look. Gimme a Kobold or Whisper Gnome any day.

I like the start you have going and despite thier elf or dwarf feal, you should use what you got. Even if they come off a little sterotypical, so what? Thier still human and thats what really makes them differnt.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

they "look" how you imagine it. The pictures in phb suck anyway.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

One kingdom was based (loosely, mind you) on a sort of Germanic-Gothic-Celtic (esp. 12th c. Welsh) vibe. Personality-wise they are taciturn and reserved, living in tight-knit clans. Their arts tend toward crafted items, like gold jewelry and carved wooden objects. Architecture was going to be Romanesque, made of dark stone with massive facades.

Have druidism as one of their main religions, with sacred ceremonies in forests. Their "Coming of Age" rites might involve surviving in the wilderness for a week or a month.

To distinguish them from elves, their goal is not to "live in harmony with nature". Instead, nature is a powerful force that can destroy civilization at a whim and needs to be appeased to stave off their doom.

Another nation was based (again, loosely) on early Renaissance Italy. Passionate and creative, arts tending toward literature and painting, brightly colored buildings reaching skyward.

Just emphasize how they have been logging down all nearby forests in pursuit of their arts and their tall buildings. Add in some major alchemical factories for larks which pollute the rivers.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Well, you could soldier on, & hope for the best. You could also revise the cultures slightly to seem less so dwarven/elven.

However, there's always the possibility that you or the players will see what they want to see out of something--sorta like looking at clouds & seeing images/forms/shapes in them other than particular cloud formations. Some may see it as you have, some may not.

Or, you could always switch to an established setting that doesn't have demihumans: Conan's Hyberborea, Lankhmar's Nehwon, the Ultima series (statted up courtesy of hong), etc.

Or, conversely, you could include dwarves & elves, but have them be a far cry from the LotR/D&Desque standards. Perhaps merging the dwarves with gnomes to make them more akin to mythical dwarves with magical powers. Combine the elves with fey/feytouched to make them more mysterious and fae-like beings of myth, rather than Just Another PC Race. And, if you want, have both races but disallow them for use as PCs--use them appropriately and sparingly to throw the weirdness &/or wonder back into them.

 

[GreatLemur]

However, as I got deeper into these two cultures, I realized that they were uncomfortably close to stereotypical dwarves and elves, respectively.

Hell, I wouldn't worry about it. The cultures sound interesting, despite minor similarities to traditional RPG dwarves and elves (and this is coming from someone who shares your dislike for them). I've often thought about how much cooler Eberron would be if it was reworked to replace all the PHB races with human cultures, actually. Just don't give your German Gothic Celts huge, fluffy beards, and you'll be fine.

 

[Insight]

There's absolutely no reason you can't get rid of every nonhuman race. If it's what you want for your setting, do it. If you're worried that your humans-only setting might lack variety, think of all the varied human cultures in our world. Combine a few of them and see what happens.

Or, replace the elves, dwarves, whatever with humans with similar cultural features. It sounds like you're doing that already. Make sure, however, to "tweak" them so that these human cultures don't too closely resemble elves, dwarves, etc. There's a reason you want to get rid of elves, dwarves, etc; don't just put them back into your game in a different skin.

 

[Tauric]

Well, why don't you players like dwarves and elves? Why should you players like your Welsh and Italian-esque human nations?

Personally, I do like dwarves, but one of my players doesn't, and they were featured heavily in a previous campaign (different DM, now a player). We don't like elves largely because of Legolas in the movies (dumb reason, i know, but there's no accounting for taste).

The whole purpose writing up the cultures was to give my world a different feel than the one we've been playing in, in which every kingdom had the same culture, and it was kind of bland and lacked cohesiveness.

I chose the cultures I did because that is what I'm familiar with as a student of medieval and Renaissance Europe.