Homosexuality in the Forgotten Realms

[Cameron]

Admin... twitching... must... not... post...

Remember what happened when the normal cat went up against the commoner, guys! This one's got -YAR!- pirate levels! Run for the hills!!!!

 

[paradox42]

You are strongly implying a connecting homosexuality and genetics. That shouldn't be done lightly.

As a gay man myself- and, raising the spectre of Kinsey which you both seem to be assiduously avoiding, a pure Kinsey 6- meaning I've never felt the slightest inclination in my life towards sex with a female- I must say, I don't see how there can't be a genetic (or at least, "biological hardware") component to homosexuality. I've done meditation and all sorts of personal self-exploration; I've even achieved moments of satori in the Buddhist sense (on three occasions). I know how to alter my personal inclinations when I feel the need to. And no argument saying it's "software" (that is, imprinted, or based on some sort of psychological factor) has ever made sense to me or rang true in the least.

I know it's a spectrum; I've met plenty of bisexuals both male and female. I've discussed the subject of sexual orientation with several of them at length. I know I'm an extreme. But we do exist, and as a member of the homosexual extreme I must ask- how do you explain me, if not with something inborn? Purely genetic would likely be absurd, yes, but "software" this ain't. This is wiring. This is hardware.

And if it wasn't already obvious, my own background is in computer science- I was a programmer by trade but took several classes in computer engineering in order to get my degree. And I do a lot of reading on wide-ranging subjects.

 

[Samnell]

As a gay man myself- and, raising the spectre of Kinsey which you both seem to be assiduously avoiding, a pure Kinsey 6- meaning I've never felt the slightest inclination in my life towards sex with a female-

I'm the same, excepting one or two brief glances at exceptionally androgynous-looking women. It was a sort of double-take thing. "Oh hey, that guy looks kind of- oh, not a guy. Nevermind." Over in twenty seconds. Do momentary misunderstandings count against you?

My irrelevant background is in History, English, and Education. My relevant background is being an actual homosexual person.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Well, I've always found Drizzt to be a tad rough trade.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

a genetic (or at least, "biological hardware")

This is actually a huge distinction. (and number one reason to mock the "potential pet cloning" craze). While people often toss around dicotomies like "nature vs nurture" and "genetics vs environment", the uterine environment is a major biological determinent interacting with or independant of genetics. [end sidetrack of the sidetrack]

Edit : the first cat to be cloned, and the resulting kitten clone with it's surrogate mom.

kitty and clone when clone is a year.

What were they thinking, starting with a calico?

 

[prosfilaes]

The likely results of a race with a 2000 year lifespan with, say, 1800 of those years being fertile and an 18 month gestation period is ecological armageddon.

I think that's completely backwards. Never underestimate the power of exponential growth. If an elf has her first child at 200, and has a child a year for the next 200 years, there will be 201 elves. If a human has her first child at 20 (and her children at 20, etc.) and each woman has four children, after 200 year, there will be on the order of 2^10, or 1000 female humans. That's rough back of the envelope numbers, but even then the humans are raising relatively small families and the elves are trying to raise dozens of children at once.

For a different approach, look at the endangered and non-endangered species. Large mammals, with long lifespans, are almost all endangered, even thought I don't know one of them that is tied to one plant or one narrow environment. We can fill all the grocery stores in the US with shelves of tuna with minimal worries, but we have to worry about the dolphins caught as a side effect of tuna fishing.

I think most fantasy RPGs have it exactly right; short-lived orcs can rebuild their population quickly, like rabbits, but one good attack on elves can leave them trying to rebuild their population for centuries.

 

[Shemeska]

This is actually a huge distinction.

Absolutely, which is why I reacted as I did to the suggestion that when I said biological, I implied genetics. Huge, huge difference as you say.

 

[prosfilaes]

The form it would take would certainly depend on the society. If I understand correctly, until later Victorian times, there was quite a bit of legal homosexual behavior in England, and those who engaged in it quietly went home to their wives at the end of the day and didn't talk about it. There could be a lot of homosexuals in a society without there being anybody who was openly gay. Charismatic and god-like leaders, like many of D&D's leaders, might well be able to flaunt what is normally clandestine in society, though a look at English history leads me to think that an openly gay king would have abdicated or been executed.

Personally, I'd suspect the chaotic races would be a lot more bisexual than the lawful races. I can't see a chaotic race like elves not trying both sexes at some point in their life, whereas I suspect lawful human-like races like dwarves would be more likely to form tight pair bonds and be monogamous for life.

As for personal anecdotes, I'm firmly heterosexual, but there's enough attraction to a certain type of male for me to think that perhaps were I Chaotic instead of Lawful, especially with a longer lifespan, that I might try both ways.

 

[pawsplay]

Well, dunno about whether it's actually common or not, but it does exist in the canon WotC setting (Ed Greenwood's FR as run for his home games is much more ... liberated then published material).

There is at least one city in the FRCS (Elversult it seems to be) where the female high constable is described as the 'consort' of the female ruler of the city.

"Consort" is not necessarily a sexual/martial term. In fact, outside the realm of English Monarchy, it usually means just means, in relation to a ruler, an assistant.

 

[wedgeski]

Wow. And here I was clicking page 5 with gritted teeth... awaiting the inevitable flame fest... and what do I find? Egads! A civilized, on-topic, open-minded, intelligent discussion on homosexuality as it pertains to a fantasy universe.

Capital.