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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5776763" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'm not sure that there is a thiefly ability that no other class replicates in 3e.  Evasion is shared with several other classes.  Uncanny dodge is shared with several other classes.  Trapfinding is pretty close to one in core, since effectively no other class can find traps as its rare for a trap search DC to be less than 20.  I want to go back to hammer this point, but Sneak Attack is a mechanical variation (mostly) unique to rogue, but its not a unique ability.  One thing 3.5 was particularly bad about was introducing multiple mechanical variations on the same ability, with the result of having more diversity of mechanics than actual diversity of propositions.  Two characters might be doing the same thing, but using different mechanical perks to resolve the same proposition.  At its worst, 3.5 encouraged dipping into mutliple mechanical perks on the same theme from different classes with overlapping schticks in order to develop a mechanically superior variant.  I do not like mechanical variation for its own sake.  And almost by definition, I wouldn't want there to be a unique thief ability.  The thief is a 'mundane' class.  So while it might greatly excel classes in certain areas - breadth of skill, access to agility perks - I'd be hesistant to let it do anything that wasn't a difference in quantity rather than quality from what any other class could do.  Instead, what I'd want is to make sure that there was a tipping point in every mundane ability beyond which it became truly extraordinary.Anyone with sleight of hand can pick your pocket, but with enough skill a character can take the shirt off your back without you noticing.Anyone can climb a wall, but with enough skill, a character can run up a wall and cling to it as easily as he stands on level ground.Anyone can balance on an unstable surface, but with enough skill, a character can walk on water.  And so forth.So core 'theifly' abilities might be some thing like:"Add your class level as a bonus to hit against any foe you have combat advantage on.  Additionally, you may apply one combat perk to each attack you make against this foe even if you don't know that perk, provided you meet all the perks prequisites."But I'm pretty happy on the whole to just consider the rogue to be a particular diverse selection of mundane abilities provided that the system doesn't, as stock 3e tended to, suggest that spells are just simply better than skill.</blockquote>

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