Horrid Wilting

[Kae'Yoss]

A kind GM might let HW do extra damage to Water Elementals, also.

So kind DM's are those who use the rules?


And my opionion on the matter: I can see it be ruled either way - fire elementals are pure flame and not subject to horrid wilting and fire elementals contain gasoline or something else that is liquid (which may not even exist in our non-magical world) and be affected by it. But a DM should inform the players how he rules it, and should do it before the player wasted an action. If he doesn't want to just tell them, a knowledge check would be appropriate. But don't just jump on them and say: "Hah, I rule otherwise, you wasted your action."

 

[Scion]

Kae'Yoss did a good job, but I'll go over it again

I don't think the matter could arise in a non-combat situation. When else could the DM have informed the players?

Preferably whenever the spell was picked, but at the very least before it was cast.

Now, not everything will be spelled out beforehand, and certainly not everyone will think of this so far ahead of time, but 'definately' before the action and spell are wasted.

Eh, I don't know about that. Remember the part at the end of your quotation where it points out that elementals to not sleep, eat, or breathe.

So, even though it says they are living you say they arent living because they dont have to sleep, eat, or breathe? So are outsiders only 1/3 alive? Living constructs arent alive?

In d&d land I dont define living by whatever I feel might be appropriate at the time, I go by the rules (either houserules or raw, but houserules are all spelled out ahead of time)

If the dm was going to say, 'sorry, you cant cast spell X on the elemental because it isnt alive' then I would say, 'great, but please let me know about your houserules ahead of time so I can plan accordingly'

Would you rule that Horrid Wilting works on Salt Elementals?

'Salt' elementals might be that way because they are a combination of an acid and a base, and as such may be semi-aqueous. Of course, given that 'acid and base' are rolled into the acid energy type a salt elemental would likely have the acid descriptor anyway.

It depends on the situation though. Just because there could be living creatures who are immune does not mean that any who might be because it is more difficult to imagine them having some sort of fluid in them are automatically immune.

The dm could say either way in this case, but it certainly is not a 'definately no' or 'definately yes' sort of case.

Unless of course there is something in the raw that we have all missed?

 

[Devin Cole]

As a DM and a player i can see both sides. I tend mostly to think with my DM hat on and would have most likely ruled that the spell did not effect the fire elemental. I also would have given the player the chance to recind the spell and choose another to cast. WIzards and Sorcerers know the effects of their arcane spells and should know what effect the spell will have on various creatures. My suggestion for in game rulings such as this would be to ask the player to make a Knowledge check DC (10+hit dice of the creature), knowledge planes in this case. If the player succeeds the check then he would have known the spell would be of no conciquense and then should be allowed to cast a different spell but if she failed then the player cast the spell and will know better next time....if there is a next time.

 

[Thanee]

Just wanted to point out, that since the spell specifically works against water elementals, that is also a rather strong hint, that they are indeed considered living creatures, since the spell only works on living targets.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

My suggestion for in game rulings such as this would be to ask the player to make a Knowledge check DC (10+hit dice of the creature), knowledge planes in this case.

This has the odd effect that if they had run into a 1hd fire elemental the check would be trivial, but running into a 400hd fire elemental would make it impossible.

So why would it make sense that the knowledge of 'fire elementals have/dont have any moisture' would vary so greatly depending on whether you ran into the baby or the grandpappy?

 

[Devin Cole]

This thread has given me a really stupid idea, which means that it will most likely show up in my campaign soon knowing my players A new spell against fire elementals Abi Dazim's Horrid soaking......fills the subjects body with fluids.....fire elementals beware

 

[Scion]

This thread has given me a really stupid idea, which means that it will most likely show up in my campaign soon knowing my players A new spell against fire elementals Abi Dazim's Horrid soaking......fills the subjects body with fluids.....fire elementals beware

You could likely do this with quench. Just use some flavor text revisions and a few other minor changes and you are set

 

[Trainz]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I would of course allow the player to change his action, even if some dice were rolled.

It would be hard to warn the player before hand because quite simply, the situation never occured to me in the first place.

 

[S'mon]

Ruling that the spell has no effect on a fire elemental seems reasonable to me. But the character should probably know things like that, so I'd have told the player before he cast the spell, so he could choose a different action.

Or possibly allow a Spellcraft or Knowledge (Planes) check to know this before wasting the action.

Yeah, I'd either have told them - "Er, doesn't it occur to you...?" or at least given them a crooked eyebrow...

 

[S'mon]

So kind DM's are those who use the rules?

1. Obviously, I didn't reread the HW text before posting.

2. Kind GMs I guess use the rules when it benefits the players, but tweak/modify the rules in the player's favour, and in extreme cases give the most favourable possible rulings like "fire elementals are made of flammable water" even when these are unsupported by the text.

3. Personally I'm a RBDM at least to an extent. One thing I do that's anathema on Rules Forum is nerf any spell I think is overpowered - eg IMC Horrid Wilting centres on the caster and affects at most 1 creature per caster level. Even with that it' still overpowered compared to Meteor Swarm IMO.