Horses and width

James McMurray

First Post
How wide are most horses (or in this case Centaurs)? Will they have difficulty getting through a normal sized door?

Also, how tall are centaurs?

Thanks!

Just because I live in Texas, doesn't mean I've seen a lot of horses. :)
 

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Horses are on the order of twice as wide as a good-sized person (though obviously there's a lot of variation in both horses and people). Most horses would definitely have a squeeze to get through a normal (i.e. modern residential-sized) door, but could do it.

As for centaurs, well, hard to say, but since they are Large sized creatures they ought to be at least in the 8-foot range to be able to use the appropriate gear in D&D. Note that even that height would make the equine part of their body considerably smaller than a horse.
 
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Dr_Rictus said:
Horses are on the order of twice as wide as a good-sized person (though obviously there's a lot of variation in both horses and people). Most horses would definitely have a squeeze to get through a normal (i.e. modern residential-sized) door, but could do it.

As for centaurs, well, hard to say, but since they are Large sized creatures they ought to be at least in the 8-foot range to be able to use the appropriate gear in D&D. Note that even that height would make the equine part of their body considerably smaller than a horse.

Sorry, I'll have to argue this. As qualifications, I point out that my wife runs a boarding stable with 30 or so horses as a second job, and has owned horses for 26 years or so (we own four personally).

A normal horse, even a large one, is not much wider than an average human is (at the shoulders, not the waist). I have, in fact watched my wife bring out horses through a normal sized residential outside door to the barn (32" width) on a lead rope, with a little room to spare on either side.

The actual issue that horses may have with a door (if they are unfamiliar with them) is based on the fact that most horses are scared of what is unknown to them. If they have a human leading them to show it's ok, or have been through a door before, 90 times out of 100 they will do it by themselves without issue. The other 10 times, they forget they've been through it before.

Another issue may be in the larger breeds, but even they are no wider than a doorway (otherwise how could you sit on one with a saddle and straddle it with your legs?). My wife has two Belgian mares at the barn and both would pass through a door without trouble (as a side note, if you really want to feel puny, stand beside one with their pie-pan sided feet and their head which is about the same size as your upper torso..).

The main problem with horses is their height in passing through doorways, but just like we do, they can duck their heads to avoid the top of the door. Horses are measured to their wither (which is the funky looking hump on their backs near the base of their necks) not to the tops of their heads. They are measured in "hands" of height, each hand being 4". A tall horse is 17 2 to 3 hands high, which translates to 76", which turns into 6' 4" tall with their head ducked. That should pass easily through a normal door (but don't try to ride one through it!). Their are bigger horses (like 18 hands or more), but they're rare to be that big. Most modern normal riding horses vary between 15 to 17 hands depending on the breed, medieval horses were smaller.

Centaurs might have trouble with a normal sized door due to the torso and human head, but they are probably articulated in the same way and can "lean forward" enough to duck under a doorframe. Realize that a horse can lower it's head all the way to the ground in order to eat grass.

Don't get me started on the way that she snickers about the way most people treat their horse in the game either....;)

Hope this helps! Man, look at all the info I picked up just from ozmosis from being married to her for 12 years.
 
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Ok, what about a situation like this:

| | |
|_d_|

You've got a 5' corridor with a door on the side wall. It leads to a 5' corridor heading the opposite direction. Would a centaur have trouble navigating that? I'm not looking for it to be impossible (I doubt it is) but I think it might at least require an escape artist check to wriggle through.

Also, I have to assume that Centaurs are on the large side for horses, since they have the same strength as a heavy war horse. How does that affect the doors issue?

Thanks!
 


James McMurray said:
Ok, what about a situation like this:

| | |
|_d_|

You've got a 5' corridor with a door on the side wall. It leads to a 5' corridor heading the opposite direction. Would a centaur have trouble navigating that? I'm not looking for it to be impossible (I doubt it is) but I think it might at least require an escape artist check to wriggle through.

Also, I have to assume that Centaurs are on the large side for horses, since they have the same strength as a heavy war horse. How does that affect the doors issue?

Thanks!

So you're saying a U-shaped 5' corridor with a door at the bottom of the U?

Assuming that a centaur upper body has the same flexing capability as a horses head, they shouldn't have any trouble, but there certainly isn't room in the corridor for anyone else as they're navigating it. A horse's neck is flexible enough for them to bite at their sides behind where your legs would be while riding.

Even though they rate the centaur as a large creature, it's mostly for their length. They are definitely more that 5' long (nose to tail), but they don't fill the 5' x 10' space allocated to them more that a person fills the 5' x 5' space given to them. I actually picture the horse part of the centaur being on the smaller size for a horse (maybe 13 to 14 hands or so - 52" to 56" so about 5' 2" to 5' 6" tall) with an additional 2' for the torso (which look like about from the bottom of your ribcage to the top of your head) giving them a total height of about 7' 2" to 7' 6".

The high strength score of the horse simply comes from the amount of muscle mass available to horses. Realize a medium riding horse weighs in at about 1200 to 1500 lbs, and a heavy horse like a Belgian or Percheron can weigh in at 2000 lbs or more. That's a lot of "ommph" to put behind a blow or pulling/carrying something, not neccessarily from their size.

BTW - these questions are helping me to, my wife's dwarf was killed in the game I DM, and she is bringing in a centaur for her new character (at an ECL of 7) with 3 levels of fighter. I looked at the stats she got after being modified for a centaur and the physical ones are scary! She hasn't had a chance to play it yet....
 

Zenon said:


So you're saying a U-shaped 5' corridor with a door at the bottom of the U?

Assuming that a centaur upper body has the same flexing capability as a horses head, they shouldn't have any trouble, but there certainly isn't room in the corridor for anyone else as they're navigating it. A horse's neck is flexible enough for them to bite at their sides behind where your legs would be while riding.

Cool. Thanks!

Even though they rate the centaur as a large creature, it's mostly for their length. They are definitely more that 5' long (nose to tail), but they don't fill the 5' x 10' space allocated to them more that a person fills the 5' x 5' space given to them. I actually picture the horse part of the centaur being on the smaller size for a horse (maybe 13 to 14 hands or so - 52" to 56" so about 5' 2" to 5' 6" tall) with an additional 2' for the torso (which look like about from the bottom of your ribcage to the top of your head) giving them a total height of about 7' 2" to 7' 6".

But the largest horse available has the same physical stats as they do. How can they be on the small side for a horse?

BTW - these questions are helping me to, my wife's dwarf was killed in the game I DM, and she is bringing in a centaur for her new character (at an ECL of 7) with 3 levels of fighter. I looked at the stats she got after being modified for a centaur and the physical ones are scary! She hasn't had a chance to play it yet....

Let me know how it goes. Perhps we can collaborate on ways to challenge the centaurs. :)
 

James McMurray said:
But the largest horse available has the same physical stats as they do. How can they be on the small side for a horse?

Actually, a centaur PC's stats are better than that of a large horse. IIRC, they have a +8 stat modifier to STR, another large one to CON, etc. The stats you see listed in the MM for a Centaur are for an average member of their race (much like 6 stats of 10 would be an average human). IIRC, the way you get the racial modifier is to subtract 10 (or 11 if the stat is an odd number) from the stat in the book. For most stats, these are a straight modifier. INT works differently.

My musings on Centaur height are simply for my own campaign. If you feel you want them 9' tall, go for it! There is nothing stopping you, and until Savage Species comes out in 2003, we just have to guess at it.

Do you have someone trying a Centaur PC in your game too?
 
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