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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9588247" data-attributes="member: 6684958">I got rid of the &quot;balanced party&quot; long ago.&nbsp; The whole idea of balance got it start in the simple, direct RPGs like 1E D&amp;D.&nbsp; Games that were intentionally designed to be very limited in their forms of game play.&nbsp; 1E was very much hexcrawl....move explore combat and repeat.&nbsp; And 1E was most about the dungeon.&nbsp; And so the balanced party here was the simple ''having a thief to pick a locked door&quot;.&nbsp; Born out of the fairly simple horror of some games having four fighters stuck in a room and unable to get past a locked door.&nbsp; And this could end the game.Though starting in 1E, there was already a movement towards role playing.......leading too:2E really made the push to the wondrous role playing.&nbsp; Tossing the books off the table and just role playing.&nbsp; 2E really moved away from the &quot;dungeon with a door&quot;&nbsp; that needs a &quot;thief with the lock pick skill&quot;.&nbsp; The game world of 2E was anything and everything and more.&nbsp; In 2E a single character could have a lot of varied abilities, not tied to one thing.&nbsp; This created the huge mismatch of not having &quot;ability A to overcome problem A&quot;.&nbsp; And, most of all, pure role playing....the &quot;acting&quot; type.&nbsp; Where any character can just pull out an axe and chop down a door WITHOUT any rolls or rules or &quot;ability to chop wood skill&quot;.The real crown jewel of this was all the adventures.&nbsp; An adventure to recover a lost elven crown, and the introduction says &quot;a balanced party with an elf is needed&quot;.&nbsp; Not because the elf has some +1 to elf reactions, but because under pure role playing acting that the NPC elves will 'like' a PC elf better then other PCs.&nbsp; And a player could really role play this, no matter what their character sheet says.3X moves back to the mechanical rules, but keeps lots of abilities and classes and roles..&nbsp; Roll X to do X using rule X.&nbsp; Except they keep the wide world of encountering anything....but now all players limit themselves to only rule mechanical rolls.&nbsp; So when the encounter something like a locked door.....then look on their character sheet for an ability that says &quot;open door&quot;, if they can't find it, the game just stops.And 5E ish is somewhere between 3-5, but with nearly all players stuck on only playing the mechanical character sheet.It is far time to drop the &quot;balanced party&quot; idea</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9588247, member: 6684958"] I got rid of the "balanced party" long ago. The whole idea of balance got it start in the simple, direct RPGs like 1E D&D. Games that were intentionally designed to be very limited in their forms of game play. 1E was very much hexcrawl....move explore combat and repeat. And 1E was most about the dungeon. And so the balanced party here was the simple ''having a thief to pick a locked door". Born out of the fairly simple horror of some games having four fighters stuck in a room and unable to get past a locked door. And this could end the game. Though starting in 1E, there was already a movement towards role playing.......leading too: 2E really made the push to the wondrous role playing. Tossing the books off the table and just role playing. 2E really moved away from the "dungeon with a door" that needs a "thief with the lock pick skill". The game world of 2E was anything and everything and more. In 2E a single character could have a lot of varied abilities, not tied to one thing. This created the huge mismatch of not having "ability A to overcome problem A". And, most of all, pure role playing....the "acting" type. Where any character can just pull out an axe and chop down a door WITHOUT any rolls or rules or "ability to chop wood skill". The real crown jewel of this was all the adventures. An adventure to recover a lost elven crown, and the introduction says "a balanced party with an elf is needed". Not because the elf has some +1 to elf reactions, but because under pure role playing acting that the NPC elves will 'like' a PC elf better then other PCs. And a player could really role play this, no matter what their character sheet says. 3X moves back to the mechanical rules, but keeps lots of abilities and classes and roles.. Roll X to do X using rule X. Except they keep the wide world of encountering anything....but now all players limit themselves to only rule mechanical rolls. So when the encounter something like a locked door.....then look on their character sheet for an ability that says "open door", if they can't find it, the game just stops. And 5E ish is somewhere between 3-5, but with nearly all players stuck on only playing the mechanical character sheet. It is far time to drop the "balanced party" idea [/QUOTE]

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