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<blockquote data-quote="hong" data-source="post: 211624" data-attributes="member: 537"><p>To add to what the others said:</p><p></p><p>1) Everybody knows about the guild, and so finding out about it becomes irrelevant (although knowing who controls the action may still be important). The guild is all over the place, and has its fingers in all sorts of pies. This may even extend to knowing where the guild's HQ is, but actually storming the place is another matter.</p><p></p><p>2) Major power centers implicitly approve of the guild's existence. Perhaps they know that it keeps the lid on destructive turf wars, or is a major player in political intrigues, or is just too popular among the lower classes to eradicate (that whole Robin Hood thing). One way or another, the guild's continued existence is guaranteed, as long as it doesn't cause trouble.</p><p></p><p>3) Discern lies isn't that useful:</p><p>"Where is the headquarters of the thieves guild?"</p><p>"I don't want to answer that question."</p><p>It doesn't prevent evading the question, or not answering the question at all. In fact, the best way to get answers out of people may be to resort to the age-old tactic of torture, magic notwithstanding. Medieval torturers were quite adept at getting answers out of people; and yet intrigue, organised crime and other such behaviour still seemed to carry on unabated.</p><p></p><p>4) There may not be spellcasters with discern lies/zone of truth on every corner, or at least not ones who are willing or able to help with investigations. Maybe the city doesn't have that many high-level clerics, or the ones who are around see policework as not being their responsibility.</p><p></p><p>5) Magic spells aren't proof, they just tell you where to find it. So even if someone admits under a zone of truth spell that they're a member of the guild, this may not be admissible evidence in a court of law.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, however, the best answer may be: because that's the way it is. All of the above handwaves have holes in them. The answer isn't trying to patch all the holes (which is impossible), it's drawing attention away from the holes in the first place. Expending too much effort on creating a watertight background just encourages people to pay attention to that background, and can thus be counterproductive.</p><p></p><p>In Star Wars, Darth Vader had to fight Ben Kenobi alone. No-one questioned why he had to do this, he just did. And yet, for most people, the scene works, because the surrounding narrative is compelling enough to keep their attention and prevent them from noticing the holes. If you can keep your game moving, your players may also not have the chance to notice the holes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hong, post: 211624, member: 537"] To add to what the others said: 1) Everybody knows about the guild, and so finding out about it becomes irrelevant (although knowing who controls the action may still be important). The guild is all over the place, and has its fingers in all sorts of pies. This may even extend to knowing where the guild's HQ is, but actually storming the place is another matter. 2) Major power centers implicitly approve of the guild's existence. Perhaps they know that it keeps the lid on destructive turf wars, or is a major player in political intrigues, or is just too popular among the lower classes to eradicate (that whole Robin Hood thing). One way or another, the guild's continued existence is guaranteed, as long as it doesn't cause trouble. 3) Discern lies isn't that useful: "Where is the headquarters of the thieves guild?" "I don't want to answer that question." It doesn't prevent evading the question, or not answering the question at all. In fact, the best way to get answers out of people may be to resort to the age-old tactic of torture, magic notwithstanding. Medieval torturers were quite adept at getting answers out of people; and yet intrigue, organised crime and other such behaviour still seemed to carry on unabated. 4) There may not be spellcasters with discern lies/zone of truth on every corner, or at least not ones who are willing or able to help with investigations. Maybe the city doesn't have that many high-level clerics, or the ones who are around see policework as not being their responsibility. 5) Magic spells aren't proof, they just tell you where to find it. So even if someone admits under a zone of truth spell that they're a member of the guild, this may not be admissible evidence in a court of law. Ultimately, however, the best answer may be: because that's the way it is. All of the above handwaves have holes in them. The answer isn't trying to patch all the holes (which is impossible), it's drawing attention away from the holes in the first place. Expending too much effort on creating a watertight background just encourages people to pay attention to that background, and can thus be counterproductive. In Star Wars, Darth Vader had to fight Ben Kenobi alone. No-one questioned why he had to do this, he just did. And yet, for most people, the scene works, because the surrounding narrative is compelling enough to keep their attention and prevent them from noticing the holes. If you can keep your game moving, your players may also not have the chance to notice the holes. [/QUOTE]
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