House Rule - Changing Dazed and Stunned

[keterys]

Another Option:
Daze = grant CA, lose 1 action
Stun = Current Daze

 

[unan oranis]

Killing PC's can also speed things up. "You three, meteors fall on you and you left home without your umbrella so you're dead. You two were wearing helmets so roll initiative, this should be fast."

Hey now, a lot of people (myself included) enjoy the 3e play style... thats a new one in the pro column though! "speeds things up".

I don't think it's so much the speed people are objecting to, as it is the fun factor. Not doing anything during your turn is not fun. I don't really have a problem with daze as is, but stun is just too harsh of a condition that just makes a player bored.

I agree - the real problem is the frustration of having to wait two full cycles of everyone but you interacting with the game.

But this is a problem whose solution is entirely in the players hands.

If your team mates are too selfish to move and grant a save for you, hire a torch bearer to lurk in the back ground and run out to grant you a save.

Another possible solution is that the dm be prepared to hand one of the monsters over to the stunned player, give him a chance to vent by slaying a few comrades.

From a time perspective, stun doesn't really speed up anything either. One player not taking a turn means someone else is going to need another turn to take down the enemies. And it does slow things down because it's a turn where you are not synergizing with anyone. You don't get to use the bonus the leader just handed out, you don't get to move in position to flank with your rogue, you don't get to mark anything or make opportunity attacks. Without synergy, your party is just going to do less damage, taking longer to clear out the encounter.

I disagree.

The total combat time might be slightly more or less depending on the price of eggs this morning; but the actual pace would be slightly faster.

Your points are good, but the main culprit of slowing down play is the full-stop of a player choosing what he wants to do - I think the things you mention would only be a blip on the radar, not to mention they cut both ways (the monsters get stunned too).

 

[Mengu]

If your team mates are too selfish to move and grant a save for you, hire a torch bearer to lurk in the back ground and run out to grant you a save.

It's not always a matter of selfishness, but also capability (hence the umbrella comment). If you have no one who can grant saves, or those who can, have already used them, then Heal skill is all that's left. And a character who is not trained and/or with poor wisdom is not even guaranteed to be able to grant a save. There won't necessarily be a PC initiative between the time you are stunned and your turn comes around either. Even if you do get a save, you won't necessarily make it. Not to mention not all stun conditions are "save ends" some just last till end of next turn and you can't do anything about them. I love powers that grant saves as much as the next guy, but it is not even close to a guaranteed solution. And not every leader has an abundance of these umbrellas to hand out.

Your points are good, but the main culprit of slowing down play is the full-stop of a player choosing what he wants to do - I think the things you mention would only be a blip on the radar, not to mention they cut both ways (the monsters get stunned too).

My main point was that by eliminating one player's turn, you are simply giving another player an extra turn (assuming PC's will win). So the same "decision time" will be taken up, just by a different player.

Stunning monsters on the other hand does speed the game up, I'll grant you that. This is because monsters are expected to lose, and not taking a turn for a monster, will indeed shave off some time.

 

[Amaroq]

I agree - the real problem is the frustration of having to wait two full cycles of everyone but you interacting with the game.

That is exactly the sort of thing a house-rule can fix. How about - if the PC fails a save against STUNNED on his initiative, the PC is considered to be "holding his actions until he can take them"?

If nobody grants him a save, he gets another chance on his initiative .. but as soon as he's back, he's back in spades, and doesn't have additional waiting to do. His initiative is set to immediately after the PC that brought him back up.

 

[eriktheguy]

Another option for Dazed is to lose a move action or a standard action.

Comments?

Why would dazed lose a standard action? That would be worse than the current daze, which allows you to at least attack.
I have been using 'dazed loses move, stunned loses standard' for a bit and its fine. I do like that players can spend an action point on such a turn at least.

 

[Plane Sailing]

hmm... I don't get it.

I find daze and stunned speeds things up; I mean what could be faster?

One of the problems with stunned is that it takes away a 'sustain minor' power which is in use, and if it is in use it is probably quite a damaging power (a daily such as consecrated ground or one of the wizard dailies for instance).

i.e. stunning can turn a daily off early and thus slow down the overall combat as a daily power ends up having less impact that would otherwise be expected.

Regards

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

On the other hand, stunning is the only way for an opponent to stop a sustained action.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Though I personally have no problem with the effects, I'd probably houserule it to something simpler:

Stunned - At the beginning of your turn, make a save. If you succeed, you can take one action this turn, rather than none. This doesn't remove the stunned effect, and you still make the normal saving throw at the end of your turn.

Or something like that. Basically, something that makes it still very potent, but lets the player do *something*.

 

[Saeviomagy]

On the other hand, stunning is the only way for an opponent to stop a sustained action.

Well, no. He can also force the use of actions for something else. Slapping down a damaging zone on a dazed character is likely to make them move rather than sustain, for instance.

 

[eriktheguy]

At paragon tier +, daze and stun do not speed things up. If the monsters and the PCs are bothe being dazed/stunned equally, then there are less attacks going down per turn. This translates to less damage and a longer combat in general.

On the other hand, stunning is the only way for an opponent to stop a sustained action.

This is a good point. I currently houserule that stunned simply grants CA and loses a standard action, but I'm going to add that sustain powers are interrupted as a flavor and balance ruling. I might add that players who spend an action point on a turn can still sustain.

Well, no. He can also force the use of actions for something else. Slapping down a damaging zone on a dazed character is likely to make them move rather than sustain, for instance.

You can still move twice while sustaining (assuming sustain minor, which most abilities are)