House Rules: Classes, Races, Magic, and More

[XeviatTranion]

Read this stuff on your chakras- very adaptable to an rpg concept.

http://www.sacredcenters.com/chakras.html

googled it

I've read that before: aside from the three "head" chakras, it is almost impossible to link those to the ability scores in a way I would prefer. Here's what mine mean:

Air: One's air chakra governs their physical and mental quickness, as well as their senses. Magically, air is tied to the air and its movements, electricity, effects affecting speed, agility and perception, and divination. Air's opposing chakra is Earth.

Earth: One's earth chakra governs their physical and mental resiliance, as well as their deep instincts. Magically, earth is tied to plants, soil, stone, and minerals (gems and metals), acid, effects affecting vitality, endurance, durability, constitution, and wisdom, and abjurations. Earth's opposing chakra is Air.

Fire: One's fire chakra governs their physical and mental power, as well as their ability to influene others. Magically, fire is tied to heat, light, and flames, effects affecting emotion, strength, and charisma, and evocations using non-elemental energy (such as force and alignment based energies).

Water: One's water chakra governs their physical and mental flexability (mental flexability being one's ability to adapt), as well as their capacity to learn and create. Magically, water is tied to mositure and water, cold, the movement of energy (through teleportation or redirection), and illusions. (I'm having trouble placing healing: tradition states that healing is water, but logic is saying that it might be best represented as earth)

Void: Void is little understood, because it is everything and nothing at the same time. Those with an active Void chakra, possessing the ability to excersize it, are able to extend the abilities of their other chakras beyond their normal capacity. These effects resemble magic, but they are not spells. For instance, a void active character with a high air chakra could forsee attacks before they came, granting them their Perception modifier as a bonus to AC. (Void is going to be tied to "psionic" feats, though I am still unsure if I want to retain the new psionic focus mechanic, or revert to the older power point mechanic that may fit my setting more; the more I think about it, the more I consider if my Mana Die system is the best, even though it is working nicely right now).

 

[Cheiromancer]

The bit about level based warding caught my eye. Could you expand, please?

I think it is a cool idea; anyone has a chance to hold off a vampire with a holy symbol, but only a cleric can actually make them flee (or destroy them).

 

[XeviatTranion]

Cheiro, (may I call you Cheiro?) the idea works off of the Unearthed Arcana rules. Warding is a level based check, with the Warder using Level + Charisma Mod and the Wardee uses Level (Hit Dice) + Charisma Mod + Turn Resistance. A warding check requires one to hold a suitable item (cold iron vs. living spirits, silver vs. undead spirits typically, for instance) between you and the target(s) as a standard action: a successful check makes the target spirit creature paralized for one round. You may keep this up each round by spending a standard action doing so, but the check is rechecked each round (that part is a slight modification). There's a limit on how many hit dice worth of creatures you may ward at once (I believe levelx2 or levelx4, I forget what UA says).

A cleric who can turn that specific kind of creature may, after establishing a successful ward, expend a turning attempt to turn them; this requires no additional check. A cleric with double the hit dice of an affected creature destroys the creature instead. Clerics who can rebuke creatures can increase the affected creatures turn resistance with a rebuke check instead, and undead under your control always fail their ward checks against you.

I've also considered having one's charisma modifier apply to your AC vs. Incorporeals, since they get their Cha to AC against each other and everyone else. I consider it a contest of willpower.

 

[Sadrik]

Why not use what you have written here?

quickness
resiliance
power
flexability

I would rename flexability to adaptability. Adaptability is really weak too.

Also, if you wanted to have a physical/mental split for each stat use this: suppose a player rolled a 16 for his quickness stat but he thought that he should be quite witty and not as quick of body he could lower the physical side of the stat and increase the mental side on a 1 for 1 basis. So, a quickness of 14/18 means 14 in physical quickness and an 18 in mental quickness.

A character can shift a maximum of +/- 3 (this could be rolled too )

A characters stats could look like this: (actual roll in parenthesis)

quickness (16) 14/18
resiliance (11) 14/8
power (14) 14/14
adaptability (13) 10/16


quickness- controls ref saves and cha stuff
resiliance- controls will and fort saves
power- controls damage rolls and int stuff
adaptability- controls to hit rolls and wis stuff

 

[babomb]

I don't see how a Fighter can drop Dexterity; didn't I say that it was the statistic for both melee and ranged attack rolls for all weapons?

Ah, sorry. I missed that.

 

[Imret]

Welcome to the board. I'm engaged in the same process myself - world-building with major rules alterations to keep the feel - and thought I'd stop by and offer my couple of coppers.

I'm fond of a wound points/vitality system, at least in theory, since I've yet to play with them. I quite like fatigue and exhaustion additions, they're vastly underrated conditions in my experience and really make PC's worry about their health. I'm also in favor of armor as DR; would you be using full AC or partial AC from the armor? The trouble with partial AC is that armor becomes less attractive at higher levels, and full AC + DR makes mooks in armor tougher opponents than they used to be. Clearly there are no perfect answers, just curious if you've tried one or the other and have a preference.

I can see where you're going with the zero-level system, though I can't say I'm really in favor of it. Then again, the UA generic classes revitalized my love of 3.x D&D and got me to blow the dust off my world design binders, so we're going in different directions here I think. I also have no interest in the Epic rules as written, and thus don't need to tweak a rule to adapt to them.

I like an MP-based magic system, and while I haven't checked the EPH rules as yet - I've never been a fan of psionics and Exalted certainly didn't help me find time for it - I can see your reasons for using the MP dice. The trouble with MP systems is in my experience that wizards as written don't mesh easily, gaining bonus versatility over other casters with a 'spells readied' mechanic. Possibly your experiences are different?

Proficiency systems are much better than RAW, in my opinion, and yours certainly fits the bill. I hadn't considered using them to purchase armor and shield proficiencies also, but I think I like it.

I'm going to be honest on this point - I like the chakras as presented, but I'm afraid I simply dislike new attributes. In my experience, players have a tendency to forget them, races require slightly more work to balance, monsters need to be converted...if you're using a particularly limited selection of monsters and races and have players who are on board with the idea, I think it could be an excellent system. Otherwise, possibly more trouble that it's worth.

Additional short notes:
* I really, really like the warding/turning/destroying/rebuking system as presented. Since I've got a world riddled with spirits, I may need to 'borrow' the general concept. Especially since my gods are just massively powerful spirits, and could be warded by a mortal with enough power...
* As far as healing goes, does your chakra system permit an effect to require two chakras working in unison? It gives competent healers a greater sense of...majesty, IMO.
* Mirror-world system for high-fantasy/horror/war adventuring; wish I'd thought of that first.

 

[boredgremlin]

Hmm lots of interesting ideas. And i really like the concept of your world setting. I am gonna go down and list my thoughts on most of your ideas.

1) Races- You havent mentioned so i figured i would ask, are you using standard PHB races or your own designed ones? I ask because this affects the balance of varius ability scores, and possibly world setting, what with different abilities being tied to different kinds of magic. Non human societies are bound to reflect thier dominant magic type.

2) Classes- If your using magic as elemental based i would ditch the priests and probably sorcerers and just combine the spells that seem relevent to thier elemental lists and ditch the rest. You'll wind up with a smaller spell list but they will all make sense with the setting.

3) Zero level- I understand your reasoning but i dont like this idea at all. Multi classing isnt really all that bad. People who mix and match too much gain extra power early but pay for it later on. It kinda balances itself out so this isnt really necessary.

4) VP/WP- I have used this in star wars and spycraft. Very good system for modeling more realistic combat. I like your idea but you may want to work it a little simpler then a save each round. Something like this.

Any wound hit= fatigued
Negative wound points= Exhausted, only 1 action per round, any round you take an action you automaticaly suffer 1 pt of wound damage. As long as your taking no actions though you lose 1 WP per 10 minutes. ( keeps people from getting shot in the chest and just laying there on the sidewalk all night). Also when your in negative WP you dont heal normally. You need medical help when your hurt that bad or your going to die.
You die when your negative WP equal your WP total. So if you have 15 WP you must get to -15 WP to die.

5) chakra's- Neat idea. I would work it as a system where each character gets one point per level or two to use for advancing thier chakra's. And then give each class a maximum chakra advancement level depending on how spiritually focused they are.

Since your ditching the standard cantrips i would assign all chakra's 10 different levels and have level 1 be cantrips. Each chakra type would have spells and possibly spell like abilities and extraordinary abilities assigned to it to make up for its shortened spell list. I would also assign spirit based and alignment magic to the void chakra since its the pure energy that ties everyting together. Which says alignment and force or soul type energy to me.

To tie the chakra's closer to the abilities you want use the average ability modifier for spell DC. And have the different chakra's raise different abilities every few levels. Nothing too impressive but enough that players can actually see a mechanic for the connection.

 

[XeviatTranion]

Thanks much for the very detailed replies. First off, yes my players are willing to work with my new system; all of them have actually been very happy with the idea of splitting Dex into Dex and Agil.

As for my races, which I'd like to answer first, I am using PHB/Classic Fantasy races:

• Human
• Dwarf (+4 Con, -2 Agi, -2 Per)
• Elf (+4 Agi, -2 Con, -2 Wis)
• Goblin (+4 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Cha)
• Orc (+4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int)
• Halfling (-4 Str, +2 Agi, +2 Dex (size adjustments))

My races are differently flavored than in standard settings. I also have several races of my own, including Anthromorphic animals, expanded and altered Reptilian humanoids, and an extensive half-race setup (human, dwarf, elf, goblin, and orc can all interbreed, except elf/dwarf and goblin/orc doesn't work).

As for my classes, I'm not sure if I'd like to combine all of the spellcasters into one (though I have considered it before) since I feel that having different types of magic still fits my setting. Sorcerers are magic users who create magic from their own bodies, from an exceptionally powerful chakra. Wizards are magic users who learn how to manipulate the elemental energy that is naturally present in the world. Priests are magic users who are blessed with their magic by favored spirits.

To defend my level 0 system (though I respect your opinion), I'm using it mainly to help me balance my classes. I don't feel that a class's first class level should be more powerful than any other, and that's what happens when you compare a character who starts off as a rogue and then takes a level of fighter.

I've considered making multi-elemental spells, but I'm not sure it's necessary. As for making alignment spells Void, I've considered that before and I'll probably do it again. If I choose not to, then offensive alignment spells are fire and defensive alignment spells are earth.

 

[Imret]

First off, yes my players are willing to work with my new system; all of them have actually been very happy with the idea of splitting Dex into Dex and Agil.

Well then, there's no reason to listen to any external criticism of that system then. If your players are pleased with the House Rule, it's a good House Rule.

As far as your races go, the ability modifiers look good, and I see one thing I'm pleased with; a Charisma penalty in a race that tends towards cowardice, boot-licking, and lies. I've never liked the dwarven CHA penalty; they're dour and taciturn, yes, but not lacking in personal presence. Goblins, on the other hand, are typically a species that thrives on not being noticed. You may have changed their flavor, but sometimes a goblin is a goblin is a goblin.

As a side note I'm not a big fan of half-races, having trimmed them out of my own homebrew, but your experience may be quite different. I find they're a personal taste issue, so by all means have more if you're inclined to it.

As for my classes, I'm not sure if I'd like to combine all of the spellcasters into one (though I have considered it before) since I feel that having different types of magic still fits my setting. Sorcerers are magic users who create magic from their own bodies, from an exceptionally powerful chakra. Wizards are magic users who learn how to manipulate the elemental energy that is naturally present in the world. Priests are magic users who are blessed with their magic by favored spirits.

Sounds fair, all in all. Are the sorcerer's spell options limited to those appropriate to his more potent chakras, or is it a flavor issue only? Similar question with regards to clerics; do those who worship and revere a spirit found in the heart of a volcano still spontaneously cast cure spells? Again, it could just be a flavor issue, and I can see arguments for either approach.

To defend my level 0 system (though I respect your opinion), I'm using it mainly to help me balance my classes. I don't feel that a class's first class level should be more powerful than any other, and that's what happens when you compare a character who starts off as a rogue and then takes a level of fighter.

Fair enough, I can see what you're going for with the system. A question that comes to my mind, however, is could this be better tackled with a few smaller tweaks elsewhere?

The Zero level of a class includes:
- maximum hit points
- x4 skill points
- the class's proficiency feats
- saving throw bonuses

I'm fairly sure maximum HP and the x4 skill points are only given at 1st CHARACTER level, RAW, rather than 1st CLASS level. I might be wrong, but that's how I always read it.

For the proficiency system, perhaps a training time rule? Alternately or alongside that option, the first level of a class grants (this is entirely a sample number, change the mechanics anyway you like) half the difference between the two classes. To carry on your rogue with a level of fighter example, assuming he gains the level of fighter in-game, would gain 2 new proficiencies instead of four.

As for saving throws, not having the books on-hand and not wanting to do the math (particularly with regards to Epic levels), I'd have to leave that in your capable hands.

I've considered making multi-elemental spells, but I'm not sure it's necessary. As for making alignment spells Void, I've considered that before and I'll probably do it again. If I choose not to, then offensive alignment spells are fire and defensive alignment spells are earth.

I think I like the alignment spells divided between those chakras rather than attaching them to Void, IMO, just for flavor purposes.

"One's fire chakra governs their physical and mental power, as well as their ability to influence others....emotion, strength, and charisma..." Sounds to me like the right chakra to channel the power to castigate and bring down one's foes because they're Eeeeeevil!.

"One's earth chakra governs their physical and mental resilience, as well as their deep instincts." Again, sounds to me like the chakra that would oversee warding yourself and your allies against the forces of evil via your will alone.

 

[XeviatTranion]

Well then, there's no reason to listen to any external criticism of that system then. If your players are pleased with the House Rule, it's a good House Rule.

It's more a question of balance and if the rules make sense. Especially in the case of me splitting up the ability scores, I need to make sure that each is still viable. As of right now, strength is very easy to pass up on by some casters, but that's okay to me: they're casters because they're not good with a sword, but a low strength means a low fire chakra ...

As far as your races go...

My goblins are medium sized (specifically elf sized), are completely hairless, have eyes made of a solid puple, have very angled features and are incredibly emaciated. They are a semi-aquatic race, with a swim speed and the ability to hold their breath for an incredible amount of time. They also have a chameleon-like ability to change their skin color, and their skin color naturally changes to match the area they live in (river goblins have a more bluish green skin, while the goblins who live on city-ships have almost purely blue skin). They believe in loyalty, but only for as long as their trust isn't misplaced (one slight and they change from best friend to worst enemy). They are very lawful, but do not work well unless they are in a large group. They are incredibly communal as well; goblins have practically no understanding of "property", aside from what is one clan's and what is another's.

The half-humans have only +2 physical (the one that the whole race had +4 to) and -2 physical (again the same as the non-human race). The other half's get more complicated: Elf/Goblin makes Drow (LA +2), Orc/Dwarf makes Bugbear (LA +2), Elf/Orc makes "Wild Elf" (LA +1), and Goblin/Dwarf makes Duergar (LA +1).

Sounds fair, all in all. Are the sorcerer's spell options limited to those appropriate to his more potent chakras, or is it a flavor issue only? Similar question with regards to clerics; do those who worship and revere a spirit found in the heart of a volcano still spontaneously cast cure spells? Again, it could just be a flavor issue, and I can see arguments for either approach.

Sorcerers favor one element and cannot cast spells of the opposite element. Clerics spontaniously cast their domains spells. My ultimate goal is to assign each spell to an element, and to create a way to somehow determine the strength of a character's chakras, which will determine their caster level with each element: if your caster level is not equal to the minimal mana cost of a spell, you can't even access it. Being my ultimate goal, it's a long way off.

The Zero level of a class includes:
- maximum hit points
- x4 skill points
- the class's proficiency feats
- saving throw bonuses

I'm fairly sure maximum HP and the x4 skill points are only given at 1st CHARACTER level, RAW, rather than 1st CLASS level. I might be wrong, but that's how I always read it.

That's exactly what my Zero level includes: and yes, max hp and x4 skill points is normally first HD, not class level, but after running several characters who had racial hit dice (one with dragon, one with aberration, and one with humanoid), I've noticed that that first HD can destroy character concepts (a 2 HD humanoid who took rogue did not have enough skill points until around level 12).

For the proficiency system, perhaps a training time rule? Alternately or alongside that option, the first level of a class grants (this is entirely a sample number, change the mechanics anyway you like) half the difference between the two classes. To carry on your rogue with a level of fighter example, assuming he gains the level of fighter in-game, would gain 2 new proficiencies instead of four.

That's an idea I'll have to consider.

As for saving throws, not having the books on-hand and not wanting to do the math (particularly with regards to Epic levels), I'd have to leave that in your capable hands.

It's just me and my desire for continuity: I prefer using fractional save bonuses and adding thirds and halves (you have to write them both as sixths, and having a 3 5/6ths save bonus sucks) is annoying.

I think I like the alignment spells divided between those chakras rather than attaching them to Void, IMO, just for flavor purposes...

Thanks. Some spells look like they have to be Void (Wish and their like), but I'd prefer to make Void be incredibly rare, and not put "required" spells into it.

If there's a demand, I can make a new thread with my classes. Should I make one thread for each class, or put them all in the same thread?