How about a deadline to WotC?

[Cadfan]

Xechnao- Are you kidding me?

Look, slavery is illegal, right? Fundamental rights, unconstitutional, and all that? And yet you can contract to oblige yourself to have to work for someone.

Being forced to attend religious services you don't agree with is illegal, right? Same with being forced to swear belief in a religious you don't believe in? Another fundamental right, unconstitutional, etc? And yet you can contract to be an organist in a church, or even a minister, obliging you to attend that church and swear the religious oaths it demands.

Fundamental rights are things that no one can MAKE you give up. You can CHOOSE to give them up all you want!* Contracts are things you enter into voluntarily with other private citizens. They are not, generally speaking, compulsion. They don't even force you to follow them- you're allowed to breach a contract! Sometimes the law even encourages you to breach a contract! You just might have to pay a fee as a result of that choice.

*Ok, not ALL you want. There are a few exceptions, such as genuinely exploitive situations (company towns, etc). Trust me, these don't apply here.

 

[xechnao]

Xechnao- Are you kidding me?

Look, slavery is illegal, right? Fundamental rights, unconstitutional, and all that? And yet you can contract to oblige yourself to have to work for someone.

Being forced to attend religious services you don't agree with is illegal, right? Same with being forced to swear belief in a religious you don't believe in? Another fundamental right, unconstitutional, etc? And yet you can contract to be an organist in a church, or even a minister, obliging you to attend that church and swear the religious oaths it demands.

Fundamental rights are things that no one can MAKE you give up. You can CHOOSE to give them up all you want!* Contracts are things you enter into voluntarily with other private citizens. They are not, generally speaking, compulsion. They don't even force you to follow them- you're allowed to breach a contract! Sometimes the law even encourages you to breach a contract! You just might have to pay a fee as a result of that choice.

*Ok, not ALL you want. There are a few exceptions, such as genuinely exploitive situations (company towns, etc). Trust me, these don't apply here.

But there have to be some limitations. Can you contract people to work for 120 hours a week for example? Or without offering certain types of insurances? There are usually certain types of contracts regarding labor/work for example. Not everything is legal. Or is it not like this in USA?

 

[Morrus]

So could you legally make a contract with somebody physically abusing him?

No, but assault is a crime. You can't contract a crime. Not saying something is not a crime.

The important thing, in the context of this conversation, is that the GSL terms are legal (even if some people think they shouldn't be).

What you need to distinguish betwen is a voluntary agreement (a contract) and a crime (an illegal act), and not get the terms confused. A contract is not "illegal" unless it incoudes a criminal act. Now it may prove to be unenforceable, but that's just a practical issue.

 

[JackSmithIV]

I think JackSmithIV is reminding you that you seem to have forgotten this new awesome PDF-publisher called One Bad Egg!

That's so brutal...

Sadly, I have yet to look into the Poison Ivy products yet...

It's ok, we'll be around!

No you are quite wrong. For decades I have been waiting for osmething that would allow me to do this:

-Use the logo
-Include any name of something within the game
-create anything I want to add to it to interact with (skill, NWP, feat, item, town, new creature)

First of all, we basically can. I certainly don't want to speak on behalf of all publishers on this matter, I myself being a very new face to the game, but the improvements I personally seek to the GSL (mostly a +6 Enhancements bonus to the SRD) are not things I need to create any of the essential game elements you mentioned. I can create all of those things as long as I do not infringe upon any intellectual properties that Wizards of the Coast has completely rightfully decided to withhold (for example, I can't write about the Feywild, because they own that idea and want to capitalize on the concept themselves).

The changes I want to the SRD are mostly updates. Currently, I'm pretty sure that I can't use any of the templates for making mounts, vehicles, alchemical items and other such things from the Adventurers Vault. I can't elaborate on any of the new classes, such as new powers or paragon paths for Swordmage or Dark Pact warlocks, etc... but these are things that I am in no way entitled to. On the contrary, I feel grateful that Wizards has allowed me use of the IP in this way, and they've never made any sort of promise either way.

But then again, I'm just a cool-aid drinker, right?

 

[justanobody]

And why should WotC give you that? What do you offer in exchange?

For them, the value they want is keeping those defined terms defined. You, clearly, are not prepared to pay that. What are you prepared to pay?

The question the is: is it worth it to WotC to let people loose with their brand name in exchange for the price you suggest.

You're just haggling here over a trade. It's only a question of determining the price; and that price is not going to be zero.

Because it could generate more sales of their core products?

I offer free advertising of their products via mine. But the whole advertising has shifted now and people have to pay to have a product in their programs now instead of the way it used to be where the product owner had to pay to GET into the programs...

What would WotC have to lose?

Only their chance to make the exact same product.

As it stands now they can kill the GSL to steal the name from someone's new monster as it is.

What the hell do I owe WotC anyway? I have said it before, and will say it again. I don't care about WotC. I owe them nothing, they have never done a thing for me.

I was one of the many people that kept TSR hanging on by their teeth to not go into bankruptcy and foreclosure that allowed WotC to buy them and make D&D afterwards, and even bought WotC/TSR products. I think they owe me!

God forbid they save on marketing the PHB or DMG because I was able to make something that caused people to need to buy it and WotC didn't have to shell out any extra money for that advertising. How much do TV commercials cost these days? Not just the 30 seconds of time, but production as well.

So what I am offering is less marketing costs and accounts payable for WotC, with an increase in accounts receivable and sales due to the increased interest in the product for D&D that only they can make and sell.

 

[Rechan]

So could you legally make a contract with somebody physically abusing him?

Depends on your definition of abuse.

For instance, if I walk into a public place and smack a strange woman on the bottom, that's assault.

However, if I have an acquaintance who wants to be smacked on the bottom with a cane, and she gives me permission, than I can do so.

The issue is consent.

On the topic of legally binding stipulations, you can have a man whose job in a self defense class is to be kneed in the groin, or whatever unpleasant things that self-defense instructor might have the class do. That is his job. If it's in his contract that he cannot sue for injury done to him, and he gets beaten up, well that's his fault for signing that contract.

 

[Fifth Element]

What the hell do I owe WotC anyway? I have said it before, and will say it again. I don't care about WotC. I owe them nothing, they have never done a thing for me.

You don't owe them anything, unless you want to use their IP (trademark), which you would otherwise not be able to do. In that case, they'll want something in return.

The question is, why do you think they owe you something? You haven't done anything for them either.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Whether people agree that the current GSL is good or bad, or whether people agree on percieved entitlement or not because of the OGL, the idea of a deadline demand to WoTC is just a silly, futile, and empty gesture.

Exactly. Silly, futile, empty, and potentially damaging.


RC

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Because it could generate more sales of their core products?

I offer free advertising of their products via mine. But the whole advertising has shifted now and people have to pay to have a product in their programs now instead of the way it used to be where the product owner had to pay to GET into the programs...

What would WotC have to lose?

Book of Erotic Fantasy 4E?
RaHoWa 4E?

 

[justanobody]

Book of Erotic Fantasy 4E?

was that OGL or STL?

RaHoWa 4E?

what the hell is that?