How about a deadline to WotC?

[joethelawyer]

I think we very much disagree, xechnao.

I don't think so. There wasn't a flood of viable (successful) laternate new startups 8 years ago. The OGL and d20 STL pompted a flood of them, the better of whom are still around (with a couple of notable exceptions).

I believe it would. I can think of, offhand, dozens of companies that would not exist without the OGL. Extanding that, form my own work, I can think of several freelancers who have careers in the industry because of my actions. I am not vain enough to think I'm unique in that, so I multiply that by all those companies out there - Mongoose, Goodman, Green Ronin, Necro and dozens more have all jumpstarted careers, some in major ways.

Where did Mike Mearls come from?

But we can disagree.

plus you have to look at where the industry was back then. MTG damn near wiped out TSR, along with TSR's own bad business decisions. If WOTC didn't take TSR over, there would not have been anything as a standard bearer for the RPG industry during those times. I think the only things that pulled D&D through that time and allowed the game to remain alive were a combination of the name brand, D&D, as well as the OGL. It revitalized the industry. Without the vanity-appeasing aspect of the OGL, letting people be their own publihsers, I don't think 3.x or 4e would have had anyting near the fan-base it does today, nor would there besuch a level of developed talent out there.

 

[Kishin]

On the contrary I believe it could have been more productive for the hobby, trying to expand its own authentic strengths.

How many original RPG systems have been born in the last 8-10 years that weren't birthed by third party publishers who started out by dabbling in d20?

Expanding its own strengths might have led to the same sort of fragmentation we saw with TSR's Night of a Million Zillion Campaign Settings. More likely, it wouldn't have happened at all, as the entry requirements to the industry were pretty stiff before d20 came along. Published RPGs weren't springing up out of the woodwork. D20 made everything a whole lot more accessible, lowering entry cost tremendously. Sure, the internet and the pdf industry played their part, but they were a vehicle/medium more than anything. d20 was a catalyst.

believe it would. I can think of, offhand, dozens of companies that would not exist without the OGL.

I agree with Morrus 100% here.

Do you think people like Mike Mearls, Nic Logue, etc. al Would be as well known in a world without the OGL? I certainly don't, and I'm glad for it, because these guys are amazing talent and deserve the recognition they've gotten.

 

[joethelawyer]

I read your post. Just a note: I am not sure it works like this as said here in your introduction. Businesses certainly want to win the competitions but that hardly means for them that others must not make a dime off it. If it was like this no-one would want to compete ...err play game. This taste is what the drug is all about (in case it's not clear I am talking about capitalism).

As i said though, i laid out the worst case scenario. in that scenario, i assume total domination is the goal. to the extent that it is not, lesser degrees of risk are assigned to each of the elements. that's why i called it an assumption, not a law or a rule or truism.

 

[Imaro]

How about the very existence of the OGL and GSL? They didn't have to do the OGL with 3E. They didn't have to have the GSL with 4E, they could have just closed it up.

What other major gaming company offers a royalty-free license to allow other publishers to use their trademark? Heck, when Green Ronin started licensing True20, they charged a fee.

Uhm Mongoose's Runequest system is OGL.

 

[xechnao]

But we can disagree.

Of course. OTOH I believe we will never have enough evidenve to prove each other wrong. It seems it is also a personal matter and it also seems to a higher degree for you than myself.
Anyway all said and done you seem a nice guy and I am happy to chat here in your forum with people even if I look towards what Wotc has done with the OGL with an unpleasant eye. I do understand the possibility I could be feeling like you if I was in your place (regarding the hobby that is and not just personal interest)

 

[Morrus]

This is the most important line in the entire scenario.

I can't figure out why people wouldn't see this as the same as any other licensee/licensor relationship, terminatable at will by either party.

Well, to be fair, any licensee does. It's those with no real stake in it who large it up with their opinions, ignorant of what it actally means to those who put their money where their mouths are.

Talk is cheap. It's easy to talk.

 

[Morrus]

Of course. OTOH I believe we will never have enough evidenve to prove each other wrong. It seems it is also a personal matter and it also seems to a higher degree for you than myself.

On the contrary, it's not a personal matter for me. It's about rational business decisions, based on relevant criteria. And that's the same for every (serious) publisher out there.

 

[xechnao]

On the contrary, it's not a personal matter for me. It's about rational business decisions, based on relevant criteria. And that's the same for every (serious) publisher out there.

When I said personal I meant personal about actual interest (not about personal preference or taste).

 

[Fifth Element]

Uhm Mongoose's Runequest system is OGL.

I'm not familiar with the terms of their license (the trademark portion, not the OGL portion, presumably there is one since 3PP products seem to have the RQ logo on them). But that makes two if it's royalty-free.

Of course, Mongoose would likely not exist without WotC's OGL.

 

[Morrus]

When I said personal I meant personal about actual interest (not about personal preference or taste).

I don't understamnd what you mean by distinguishing "interest" from "preference" or "taste", but no worries.

For clarity: it's also not a matter of preference or taste for me. It's about rational business decisions; period. Nothing else.