How bad is an 8 in an ability score?

[mistergone]

I find that applying real-world levels of ability to game statistic numbers is often inaccurate and kind of ridiculous. To answer the original question:

"An 8 is slightly worse than a 9 and slightly better than a 7."

 

[LostSoul]

I find that applying real-world levels of ability to game statistic numbers is often inaccurate and kind of ridiculous.

That seems odd to me. How you you describe NPCs without telling the PCs their stats? If you have a character with 18 Cha, would you really say, "She has 18 Charisma" instead of describing her?

You have to relate these numbers to real-world levels of ability.

 

[Chun-tzu]

No, the way those guys act is a lot worse than an 8. Maybe a 6 at best.

Somebody with an 8 Int would probably have struggled in school but nobody would really notice outside of class. Not often, at least.

I don't think that an 8 would really be noticeable to someone at first glance.

I agree, it wouldn't be noticeable. But I think you're wrong about them having Int scores of 6 or lower. An Int score of 6 would be noticeable, but not immediately. 6 is probably in the mildly to moderately retarded range. At lower than 8, we're probably looking at poor language skills, and limited employment opportunities.

I don't see why any of the characters I mentioned (Chrissy, Kelso, Woody, and Joey) would have Int scores lower than 8. They may have low Wis scores as well, though, but that's something different.

 

[S'mon]

'8' is a bit below average, the equivalent of a '13' being a bit above average - enough to notice (unlike a 9 or 12, perhaps), but not hugely significant. A lot of Feats require a stat of 13 to take, for instance. If average real-world male STR is 10-11, average female STR might be 7-8, for instance, assuming no cultural factors to exaggerate the difference.

I agree that there's been a tendency towards stat inflation in 3e; most noticeably the tendency in some products to give mundane/mediocre NPCs the Default Array stats (15 14 13 12 10 8). While this is better than the 1e tendency to create 15th level NPCs with all-10s and no magic treasure, it tends to devalue higher stats. Default array or better stats should IMO be reserved for elite NPCs & PCs.

OTOH in a tough high-powered campaign PCs may well need stats averaging 14+ to survive, I have no problem with PCs being exceptional. In such a game, an 8 may be 6 points below the 'average' stat and of course it seems very low.

 

[Buttercup]

To me (in a broad term)

an 8 means a noticable handicap - but not severe. That individual is capable of interacting with society in general.

a 6 means a severe handicap - they are incapable of interacting with society without some level of help.

a 4 is a debilitating handicap and the need assistance to interact with society.

a 2 is a crippling handicap - that even with assistance they are unable to interact with society.

Understand that by interacting with society could mean anything from opening doors to talking with people to noticing the change in weather. (i.e. these classifications apply to all stats)

This is more or less the way I think of it, too.

For example in real life, a person with an intelligence of 8 can probably read at about a 4th grade level (the USA Today newspaper would be a struggle, NY Times would be impossible), they can surf the internet, but can't generally use a search engine successfully, they can drive, but might have a hard time understanding written or oral directions, they probably struggle with balancing their checkbook, and they are uncomfortable with people who "use big words".

A person with a constiitution of 8 gets frequent colds, has more aches and pains than the "average" joe, perhaps needs more sleep to function, and probably is allergic to lots of things. It might also imply a chronic condition like back pain or mild arthritis.

A strength of 8 means that you are frequently taxed to your limits doing the regular lifting and carrying of everyday life. One grocery bag at a time, picking up a toddler is either terribly difficult or impossible, shovelling snow is torture, and you have to have someone else open jars for you.

A charisma of 8 means (IMO) that a person is shy, unattractive or maybe has a problem like mild stuttering or severe acne. Although, stuttering could easily drop the charisma score to 6, since it can make oral communication well nigh impossible for the one so afflicted.

A dex of 8 implies a klutz, or again, maybe someone with arthritis, which inhibits swift movement.

A wisdom of 8 means that you probably are gullible, make bad decisions in affairs of the heart, and mouth off at really bad times. You might also take risks that the "average" person wouldn't. You probably think gambling might actually earn you money, succumb to chain letters and email hoaxes, and let your kids do really stupid or inappropriate things. You are an advertiser's dream.

 

[green slime]

8 Charisma is noticeable in my book. Players who choose to dump that stat NEED to be made aware that they have a poor charisma. Otherwise there is no real cost associated, so it becomes a no-brainer.

In a party with a Paladin, (Cha 20), A dwarf (Cha 6), rogue (Cha 8) and a Cleric (Cha 12) who are the NPC's going to talk to?

No NPC is ever going to want to talk to the dwarf when there is someone else to talk to. Apart from being downright ugly, the dwarf tends to say the wrong things at precisely the wrong time, pick's his nose in public, exudes a terrible stench, still has gobs of goblin brain stuck in his beard, from that battle two weeks ago. Nobody in the party even wants him anywhere near an important NPC.

The rogue just seems a shifty, unreliable type. People deal with him, but nobody is really seeking out his company. The Cleric seems credible, and has a pleasant manner, and makes friends more easily. He doesn't get alot of fringe benefits, but people will help him perhaps a bit more than they otherwise would.

The paladin on the other hand has droves of people falling over themselves to help him. It is almost embarassing to watch, the flock of teenagers that swoon as he passes by. He can't enter a tavern without the barwenches competing for his attention. His manner is immaculate, his speach clear and strong. He can say nothing wrong, and those that listen laugh at all his jokes.

 

[S'mon]

This is more or less the way I think of it, too.

For example in real life, a person with an intelligence of 8 can probably read at about a 4th grade level (the USA Today newspaper would be a struggle, NY Times would be impossible), they can surf the internet, but can't generally use a search engine successfully, they can drive, but might have a hard time understanding written or oral directions, they probably struggle with balancing their checkbook, and they are uncomfortable with people who "use big words".

A person with a constiitution of 8 gets frequent colds, has more aches and pains than the "average" joe, perhaps needs more sleep to function, and probably is allergic to lots of things. It might also imply a chronic condition like back pain or mild arthritis.

A strength of 8 means that you are frequently taxed to your limits doing the regular lifting and carrying of everyday life. One grocery bag at a time, picking up a toddler is either terribly difficult or impossible, shovelling snow is torture, and you have to have someone else open jars for you.

A charisma of 8 means (IMO) that a person is shy, unattractive or maybe has a problem like mild stuttering or severe acne. Although, stuttering could easily drop the charisma score to 6, since it can make oral communication well nigh impossible for the one so afflicted.

A dex of 8 implies a klutz, or again, maybe someone with arthritis, which inhibits swift movement.

A wisdom of 8 means that you probably are gullible, make bad decisions in affairs of the heart, and mouth off at really bad times. You might also take risks that the "average" person wouldn't. You probably think gambling might actually earn you money, succumb to chain letters and email hoaxes, and let your kids do really stupid or inappropriate things. You are an advertiser's dream.

I would pretty much use these as definitions of a stat of around '6' rather than '8'. Maybe '4' for your definition of STR, since your definition relates to modern sedentary life.

OTOH I can carry umpteen grocery bags but I still often need help with opening jars...

 

[Enkhidu]

This is more or less the way I think of it, too.

For example in real life, a person with an intelligence of 8 can probably read at about a 4th grade level (the USA Today newspaper would be a struggle, NY Times would be impossible), they can surf the internet, but can't generally use a search engine successfully, they can drive, but might have a hard time understanding written or oral directions, they probably struggle with balancing their checkbook, and they are uncomfortable with people who "use big words".

A person with a constiitution of 8 gets frequent colds, has more aches and pains than the "average" joe, perhaps needs more sleep to function, and probably is allergic to lots of things. It might also imply a chronic condition like back pain or mild arthritis.

A strength of 8 means that you are frequently taxed to your limits doing the regular lifting and carrying of everyday life. One grocery bag at a time, picking up a toddler is either terribly difficult or impossible, shovelling snow is torture, and you have to have someone else open jars for you.

A charisma of 8 means (IMO) that a person is shy, unattractive or maybe has a problem like mild stuttering or severe acne. Although, stuttering could easily drop the charisma score to 6, since it can make oral communication well nigh impossible for the one so afflicted.

A dex of 8 implies a klutz, or again, maybe someone with arthritis, which inhibits swift movement.

A wisdom of 8 means that you probably are gullible, make bad decisions in affairs of the heart, and mouth off at really bad times. You might also take risks that the "average" person wouldn't. You probably think gambling might actually earn you money, succumb to chain letters and email hoaxes, and let your kids do really stupid or inappropriate things. You are an advertiser's dream.

What Buttercup said, except replace all instances of "8" with "6-7" and all instances of "6" with "4-5."

An 8 is only a -1, I don't think you get into more debilitating effects until you hit -2 from a stat.

Edit: S'mon beat me to it, dangit...

 

[Al]

With the average roll of a 3d6 being 10.5, and I believe that someone mentioned the standard deviation of the 3d6 method being 1.7, an 8 is (2.5/1.7)=around 1.5 standard deviations below the norm. In other words, at about the top of the bottom 10% (or so) of the population.

These are not the terminally stupid people. These are the ones who *can* function in society, just about. The ones who stack shelves for the rest of their lives. The ones whose career ambitions are restricted to getting a McSmiley on their nametag. The ones who struggled to the end of high school and just managed to scrape by without flunking.

8 is dim, but it's not retarded.

 

[S'mon]

With the average roll of a 3d6 being 10.5, and I believe that someone mentioned the standard deviation of the 3d6 method being 1.7, an 8 is (2.5/1.7)=around 1.5 standard deviations below the norm. In other words, at about the top of the bottom 10% (or so) of the population.

80% of 3d6 rolls are in the 9-12 range? That doesn't seem right.