How can wizard really be an elf's favored class?

[Dark Jezter]

And I wouldn't really count all half-elves extra. We could go on and almost double the count if I counted every possible version of half-elf.

I only counted the half-elf types that have distinct racial attributes. Most half-elves in FR are exactly the same as the ones in the PHB, only differing in apperance base on whether their elf parent was a sun elf, moon elf, wood elf, etc. Half-drow differ from regular half-elves because they get darkvision instead of low-light vision. Half-aquatic elves have a swim speed in addition to a longing for the sea (if they spend too long away form the ocean, they suffer a -1 penalty on wisdom-based checks).

And Lythari are more than just elves affected with lycanthropy. They have no hybrid form, they are always good-aligned, they appear "beautiful and otherworldly", and they can only pass on their condition to other elves through a special ceremony. There's enough differences there that I'd consider Lythari a unique elf-blooded race.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I only counted the half-elf types that have distinct racial attributes.

It's not that much of a difference between them, and listing all of them, even when they're no full blooded elves as elf races seems a little like doctoring the balance sheets to me.

And Lythari are more than just elves affected with lycanthropy. They have no hybrid form,

So they are more like less than elves affected with lycanthropy.

they are always good-aligned,

More like a detail, no different racial ability

they appear "beautiful and otherworldly",

The same is said about elves in general.

 

[Will]

You know, it struck me in the shower this morning...

I think elves should have cleric as favored class.

Now wait... think about it.

Clerics favor Wisdom, they are rather tough, their 'magic' isn't affected by armor, they can heal (or kill) with a touch, their power just comes to them from the forces of the universe through meditation and prayer, they can ask the universe for advice...

Clerics need not have _anything_ to do with gods. To whit:

'Some clerics devote themselves not to a god but to a cause or source of divine power.'

I envision elves of many stripes, taking up domains in whatever cause or life they have chosen...

Makes a hell of a lot more sense than wizards, if you ask me.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Clerics don't have to worship gods (except in the FR, where divine magic is available only from deities), but they have to believe something. Of course, elves are a devote people, but not more devote than anyone else. Also, their (main) god is a god of magic, too.

Drow (especially females), on the other hand, are expected to become priestesses of Lolth (at least, where Lolth holds sway), so they have cleric as favored class.

But the elves in Midnight where like that, once: They were very devote in their gods, and they granted them divine magic in turn. Magic which was nothing short of awe-inspiring, and become an integral part of their lives. But when the veil fell and the gods couldn't be reached any more, they sought an alternative and found arcane magic - which they persued with equal devotion.

[edit]
And rest assured: If you gave elves clerics as favoured class, the elf-bashers would start complaining that the most powerful race (in their eyes) got the most powerful class now, and you wouldn't get them to be quiet for one minute.

 

[Norfleet]

Whether you feel it's thematic or not, the fact of the matter remains: The basic -2 con, +2 dex elf....is a *LOUSY* wizard. The -2 str/con, +2 dex/int "gray" elves, on the other hand, you look at that, and go, "Yeah, that looks like a wizard to me.". Why not just adopt them as your standard issue elf instead? This change doesn't really mess up any of the established elf character archetypes, yet conveniently solves a rather glaring issue:

The standard elf is *STUPID*. I mean, think about it. The standard elf begins with more than a century of life experience under his belt, yet winds up knowing less than an 18 year old human. It took him THAT LONG to develop the intellectual capability that it takes a human a mere 18 years to develop, and he still lacks the skills. Despite having a century to practice them. I'm sorry, but that sounds a lot like severe mental retardation.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Whether you feel it's thematic or not, the fact of the matter remains: The basic -2 con, +2 dex elf....is a *LOUSY* wizard.

That's nonsense. He doesn't get an Int bonus, but he doesn't have to. You don't have to get a huge bonus to the prime Stat to be a great member of that class. Humans would be lousy wizards then, too.

He can still be a great wizard. The -2 Con might be a slight problem, but you can compensate that, and you get +2 Dex, which is good since you don't wear any armor.

The -2 str/con, +2 dex/int "gray" elves, on the other hand, you look at that, and go, "Yeah, that looks like a wizard to me.". Why not just adopt them as your standard issue elf instead?

Because they aren't the standard issue elf. They are quite insular (high elves are sociable enough and get on well with other races).

Besides, they want to keep it simple with standard races. Grey Elves have too many ability adjustments.

This change doesn't really mess up any of the established elf character archetypes,

What about the elf who wants to see the world and see its peoples? That's not for your average grey elf.

yet conveniently solves a rather glaring issue:

The standard elf is *STUPID*. I mean, think about it. The standard elf begins with more than a century of life experience under his belt, yet winds up knowing less than an 18 year old human. It took him THAT LONG to develop the intellectual capability that it takes a human a mere 18 years to develop, and he still lacks the skills. Despite having a century to practice them. I'm sorry, but that sounds a lot like severe mental retardation.

It's just balance. If you said: "Elves had a whole century, they should get thrice the skill points than other races because of that", you wouldn't be bashed only by the elf-bashers, but also by everyone else, for blatant munchkinism.

Also, elves aren't stupid. They just don't rush things. They don't have to: They don't have to rush to get out of adolescence, like humans do. They can spend a whole century playing - they still have centuries to be an adult in afterwards. Also, they have more than just skills and one extra bonus feat, so they place less emphasis on them: They are immune to sleep, resistant to enchantments, can easily spot secret doors, can see twice as far in bad conditions, and they all know how to use the rapier, the long sword, and bows. They get, in fact, more than humans, but humans have more freedom in spending it.

And where did you get the idea that elves have less skills? Let's see:
Human, 1st level: (Class + Int + 1) *4. Say a wizard with 16 int: (2+3+1)*4 = 24

Elf, 1st level: (Class + Int) *4 + 6 (+2 spot, +2 listen, +2 search). Wizard with 16 int: (2+3)*4 + 6 = 26.

Humans get 4 extra points at level one, which they can spend where they want, but are limited by 4 ranks in each skill. Elves get 6 extra points which they get on listen, search, spot, and still can put 4 ranks in those skills, so they could effectively get +6, not including ability bonus, instead of 4.

 

[Dark Jezter]

And where did you get the idea that elves have less skills? Let's see:
Human, 1st level: (Class + Int + 1) *4. Say a wizard with 16 int: (2+3+1)*4 = 24

Elf, 1st level: (Class + Int) *4 + 6 (+2 spot, +2 listen, +2 search). Wizard with 16 int: (2+3)*4 + 6 = 26.

Humans get 4 extra points at level one, which they can spend where they want, but are limited by 4 ranks in each skill. Elves get 6 extra points which they get on listen, search, spot, and still can put 4 ranks in those skills, so they could effectively get +6, not including ability bonus, instead of 4.

By that logic, halflings get more skill points than elves. Halflings get a +2 racial bonus on all Climb, Jump, Move Silently, and Listen checks. Oh, they also get a +4 bonus on Hide checks for being small.

So:

Halfling, 1st level: (Class + Int) *4 + 8 (+2 climb, +2 jump, +2 move silently, +2 listen, +4 hide). Wizard with 16 int: (2+3)*4 + 12 = 32.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

By that logic, halflings get more skill points than elves. Halflings get a +2 racial bonus on all Climb, Jump, Move Silently, and Listen checks. Oh, they also get a +4 bonus on Hide checks for being small.

Yea. Resourceful little bastards.

 

[Kichwas]

The way I see D&D Elves, they're somewhere between Tolkien's superhuman Elves, the old style Daoine Sidhe of celtic myth and more mundane real world tribes of forest-dwelling humans.

To a newbie player who hasn't played since 1982 but is bringing in a wild elf I simply said "think of the wolfriders in Elfquest, she looks and acts something like that." - which is about right given the height and demeanor of a wild elf. If she was to have made a grey elf I would have referenced Blue Mountain, for a high I would have returned the Sun Folk. That hit the player's familiarity with elves, which was largely Elfquest and the Lord of the Rings movies. However when I thought about it the Elfquest model really does work well for the DnD elf.

Don't be silly, the long life span would give them more wisdom.

Bird brains...

Many parrots can live 200 hundred or more years, but Polly isn't exactly a fountain of wisdom, nor has she solved any major math dilema's of late.

...On the other hand, ever notice how birds just sit there and stare at you... maybe...


To the actual topic, culturally DnD elves seem to be a better fit for sorcerer than wizard -what with the chaotic nature- but sacred cows being what they are, it's wizard.

 

[Kichwas]

The standard elf is *STUPID*. I mean, think about it. The standard elf begins with more than a century of life experience under his belt, yet winds up knowing less than an 18 year old human.

By the age of 6 months the domestic house cat has mastered 44 skill points, by age 16 a human commoner has mastered 8. Obviously humans are idiots...

As an animal, human beings are the slowest creatures on Earth to master the basic ability to survive, and yet we are also the only to be able to excel well beyond that (last time I checked, while the hood rats might have a chevy impala, the rats in the hood didn't ).

Compared to most life on Earth, we develop at a painfully slow rate, even though we're not the longest lived life form, let alone longest lived animal by a long stretch.

Elves develop slower, and a 44 year old elf probably looks like a human six year old child.