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How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"
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<blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 5074635" data-attributes="member: 15538"><p>Sure. I always treat attributes as abstractions, even in GURPS. To me, an attribute score is a sort of bid on how often you would like to succeed at certain things. On the other hand, I am alert to the secondary consequences. For instance, most games will give Spider-Man a lower intelligence than Reed Richards. However, Spidey pretty much always outsmarts people, and can build very amazing things in a pinch, despite not being much of a scientist, in theory. On the other hand, Reed is a brilliant scientist, but he is actually sort of dumb in a lot of ways. I would probably give them the same intelligence score; although Reed is "more intelligent," Peter is probably equally likely to succeed at intelligence rolls, so that is what is important, not their in-universe IQ. Reed would just have better skills.</p><p></p><p>Looking at your example, the paladin's lifting capacity would be unusually low and he would have trouble breaking down doors. That matters to me. Whatever number is used to get the correct result, that does not matter to me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Certainly, it's one thing that turned me off 4e. I like abstraction... useful abstraction. Characters in D6 Star Wars have high attributes because they're heroic... if you see Dexterity 3D6, it's not because some backwaters governor is secretly a ninja, it's because he's expected to hit more often than not when he shoots a stormtrooper. But the view that you put your 16 or 18 in this stat, you dump that stat because it doesn't matter, etc. to me feels <em>arbitrary</em>.</p><p></p><p>Why have a trait that at all that never comes into play? Why does 4e have ability scores at all... couldn't you just skip right to shuffling points between your basic attack, your special attacks, your defense, etc.?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pawsplay, post: 5074635, member: 15538"] Sure. I always treat attributes as abstractions, even in GURPS. To me, an attribute score is a sort of bid on how often you would like to succeed at certain things. On the other hand, I am alert to the secondary consequences. For instance, most games will give Spider-Man a lower intelligence than Reed Richards. However, Spidey pretty much always outsmarts people, and can build very amazing things in a pinch, despite not being much of a scientist, in theory. On the other hand, Reed is a brilliant scientist, but he is actually sort of dumb in a lot of ways. I would probably give them the same intelligence score; although Reed is "more intelligent," Peter is probably equally likely to succeed at intelligence rolls, so that is what is important, not their in-universe IQ. Reed would just have better skills. Looking at your example, the paladin's lifting capacity would be unusually low and he would have trouble breaking down doors. That matters to me. Whatever number is used to get the correct result, that does not matter to me. Certainly, it's one thing that turned me off 4e. I like abstraction... useful abstraction. Characters in D6 Star Wars have high attributes because they're heroic... if you see Dexterity 3D6, it's not because some backwaters governor is secretly a ninja, it's because he's expected to hit more often than not when he shoots a stormtrooper. But the view that you put your 16 or 18 in this stat, you dump that stat because it doesn't matter, etc. to me feels [i]arbitrary[/i]. Why have a trait that at all that never comes into play? Why does 4e have ability scores at all... couldn't you just skip right to shuffling points between your basic attack, your special attacks, your defense, etc.? [/QUOTE]
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