How Detailed is Find the Path?

[Pielorinho]

Recently, we were escaping from a prison, and we used that hoary old chestnut Find the Path. I'm wondering how y'all would adjudicate the spell in regards to the following obstacles:
1) We had access to several spells (e.g., invisibility, wind walk) that would make our egress easier. Would Find the Path advise us to use them?
2) Certain corridors were heavily guarded and others were not. Would Find the Path steer us toward the empty corridors?
3) One key corridor was guarded with an antimagic field which would REALLY mess up our escape (not least because I was carrying an elephant animal companion polymorphed into a mouse). Would Find the Path tell us how to deactivate the antimagic field?

Daniel

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Recently, we were escaping from a prison, and we used that hoary old chestnut Find the Path. I'm wondering how y'all would adjudicate the spell in regards to the following obstacles:
1) We had access to several spells (e.g., invisibility, wind walk) that would make our egress easier. Would Find the Path advise us to use them?
2) Certain corridors were heavily guarded and others were not. Would Find the Path steer us toward the empty corridors?
3) One key corridor was guarded with an antimagic field which would REALLY mess up our escape (not least because I was carrying an elephant animal companion polymorphed into a mouse). Would Find the Path tell us how to deactivate the antimagic field?

Daniel

Two things to consider:
1. The spell only gives information with regard to the recipient.

So if you were the recipient, it's unlikely likely it would take into account how unfortunate the antimagic field would be as far as it being a pain in the ass for your animal companion. Since you can pass through the field yourself without difficulty, it probably wouldn't tell you how to avoid the field. However, you might read into the spell that it will tell you the best route that doesn't impair the functioning of the spell itself, since that would impede your egress.

2. The spell does not take into account the actions of creatures that aren't the recipient.

So no, it wouldn't direct you to unguarded corridors, unless those corridors were shorter. I read the spell as telling you the most direct route, regardless of what's on that route. If there are traps or obstacles, it tells you how to bypass them, but it doesn't decide "well route A is shorter, but there's a hundred traps and a lava field which the recipient will have to bypass by leaping from rock to rock, so let's go with route B, which is longer and safer."

In fact, most of the time it just gives you a sense of the direction of the destination, and only tells you which path to take when there is confusion over which of two paths will lead you there. For example, if the destination is north, and you're in a room with a north door that will eventually end in a dead end and a west door that will eventually turn north to find the destination, you'll get the notion that you should go west, since that's the only way to find the destination. But if you enter a room with only an east door and a west door, and both will get you to the destination, which is north, you won't get a clue, since both ways are "the path" to the destination.

Find The Path would also not advise you to cast spells unless that would specifically defeat an obstacle you will encounter along the way. For example, if there were a wall of force in your way, and you had Disintegrate, it would tell you to use Disintegrate to remove the wall. Otherwise, it would select a better path. If the destination is inside solid stone, it might tell you to use Passwall, or if that's not available to you it might say "and start digging here."

 

[Turhan]

As the DM for our group, if I had to rule on this, I'd look first at who cast the spell.

If a Bard cast it, I would assume a free thinking character would bring to mind an assortment of novel or at least unexpected options. Yes, a bard would think of all teh spells available to the party and let the spell give him a sense of which would be the One Spell to use.

Otherwise, I would let the Pc's figure it out with maybe a knowledge arcana check, DC 15-18, to see if I should hint that a traveling spell that did not leave the prime plane would be useful.

I would also consider whether the group really just wanted to get out and go on to a new adventure, or whether they were really enjoying the process of escape and worried about living to spend their loot.

Mostly I think I would allow the spell to focus on their current location if the Wind Walk method or another spell on hand was the best option. If I did not know what they had on hand, I would suggest they "Look Inward to see if they have magic to help." If not, I'd say "The spell gives you a good feeling about walking down the XYZ passage. As you progress along the tunnel/corridor each turn or stairway presents a sense of good or ill, and lets you pick the route...."

The spell will give you a sense of any danger ahead, and I would rule that the closer you got, the stronger the sense would be. It can warn of traps, for instance. The spell indicates the time to move, as well, so it might inform you "to wait here; it gives you no direction but a sense of well being blooms."

However, it will not tell you the absolute route to avoid the Foes. It is after all a spell to find a path to a destination. There may indeed be severe hazards along the way. The spell would only steer you to an empty corridor if that was the most direct physical way out.

As for the anti magic field, that is a problem. I think the spell could either tell you to find another way out, around the field, or it would simply stop working in the field, but might advise you to pass through it. You would have to get through the field on your own, as best you could, by guess and by golly. Once out, the spell would start working again.

If you had an elephant with you, that would be a shame. But at least the spell would, under my ruling, alert you to the "zone of null magic ahead- a place the spell gives you no sense of whatsoever...."

good luck.

 

[Jack Simth]

1) "Shortest, Most direct Physical Route", no mention is made of spells available - In My Campaign, it would assume you would have all effects currently on the target available
2) "and its effect does not predict or allow for the actions of creatures (including guardians)." Guards at the door are ignored by the spell.
3) "indicating at appropriate times the exact path to follow or physical actions to take. For example, the spell enables the subject to sense trip wires or the proper word to bypass a glyph of warding" If the AMF is a direct impediment to escape (e.g., must fly out); if, however, the AMF is only an impediment due to other factors (such as the Elephant-mouse issue) then nope - sorry.

 

[Pielorinho]

2) "and its effect does not predict or allow for the actions of creatures (including guardians)." Guards at the door are ignored by the spell.

Ahh--the SRD leaves the final paragraph out of the spell. THanks for pointing this out--it clarifies a lot about the spell!

I guess what I find most confusing about the spell is that it "enables the subject to sense trip wires or the proper word to bypass a glyph of warding." A glyph of warding is extremely unlikely to kill an eleventh-level character; why does the spell give this information, and what similar information would it give?

For example, does it provide information allowing the subject to bypass only those traps that impose hit point damage? If so, then it's not going to tell how to bypass the antimagic field.

Does it provide information allowing the subject to avoid conditions that the subject really wants to avoid? If so, then it should tell how to get past the antimagic field.

A glyph of warding can be set to operate according to physical characteristics. If I've set my glyphs to operate only on those people who are not wearing my special Amulet o' Doom, will your Find the Path spell tell you to acquire an Amulet o' Doom? If so, will it tell you where you can acquire such an amulet?

(That's pretty close to the situation in the game we played: we needed a certain amulet in order to bypass the antimagic field. The DM ruled that Find the Path told us about the amulet and how to use it, but didn't tell us where we could find the amulet, which seems a reasonable ruling to me).

Daniel

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Ahh--the SRD leaves the final paragraph out of the spell. THanks for pointing this out--it clarifies a lot about the spell!

I guess what I find most confusing about the spell is that it "enables the subject to sense trip wires or the proper word to bypass a glyph of warding." A glyph of warding is extremely unlikely to kill an eleventh-level character; why does the spell give this information, and what similar information would it give?

For example, does it provide information allowing the subject to bypass only those traps that impose hit point damage? If so, then it's not going to tell how to bypass the antimagic field.

Does it provide information allowing the subject to avoid conditions that the subject really wants to avoid? If so, then it should tell how to get past the antimagic field.

I read it as saying that it provides the means to overcome obstacles that inhibit the recipient's ability to proceed. A trap that can injure or delay the recipient would count, but not one that would injure or delay a companion and not the recipient. So if the recipient is wild-shaped into a rat and moving through an area too small to crawl through as a human, and encounters an anti-magic field, the spell would let him know. But if the field is just something he could walk through without being harmed in any way, it wouldn't. In this case, the field is only incidentally a problem, since the recipient could walk through it without trouble. If, however, the spell had been cast on the companion, it would alert that character to the anti-magic field, although who knows what an elephant would do with that kind of information.

 

[Pielorinho]

But if the field is just something he could walk through without being harmed in any way, it wouldn't.

The question is, what constitutes "harm"? Would a trap that disintegrates all our treasure count? What about an anti-magic field that temporarily disables our Portable Hole, forcing us to abandon all our treasure? What about a field that prevents us from breaking through the portcullis in the middle of the field?

And the elephant-polymorphed-into-a-mouse usually resides amongst my robes; its sudden depolymorphication would be very likely to cause me harm .

Daniel

 

[Tzarevitch]

Recently, we were escaping from a prison, and we used that hoary old chestnut Find the Path. I'm wondering how y'all would adjudicate the spell in regards to the following obstacles:
1) We had access to several spells (e.g., invisibility, wind walk) that would make our egress easier. Would Find the Path advise us to use them?
2) Certain corridors were heavily guarded and others were not. Would Find the Path steer us toward the empty corridors?
3) One key corridor was guarded with an antimagic field which would REALLY mess up our escape (not least because I was carrying an elephant animal companion polymorphed into a mouse). Would Find the Path tell us how to deactivate the antimagic field?

Daniel

1. No. The spell only gives objectively the shortest, most direct physial path and the means to bypass actual obstacles in the way. Casting a spell to make your trip easier is a subjective decision.
2. No. The spell does not warn you about guards. It says this specifically in the text. "ts effect does not predict or allow for the actions of creatures including guardians." (See. 3.5 SRD and the 3.5 PHB). The spell takes you though the shortest physical path even if it happens to be the most heavily guarded and it only helps with physical obstructions (traps, etc.).
3. This may be open to debate. It entirely depends on whether the field is really a trap intended to hinder or just a standing spell. If it is basically a trap and there is some way to physically shut it down or some other bypass like a password, I would say that yes the spell would tell you. If there is no physical bypass and the residents simply walk through it, then the spell would probably alert you that the field is there and tell you there is no bypass.

Tzarevitch

 

[frankthedm]

I don't like spells and effects that ruin plots and adventures, whether it's "ask the god a question" or "find the path" type spells. (I've often said that find the path could be renamed "ruin the adventure".)

What I would do if i allowed the spell.
1) No.
2) No, the shortest path.
3) The spell has a blank spot on the "path" for which no information is available. The caster can attempt a spellcraft roll to identify a spell aready in place.