How Did I Become a Grognard?

[mrrockitt]

I like 3.5Ed most. Does that make me a Neo.5nard? Neofnord? Pointfivenard? Deminard?

Me too!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Perfect world would probably alternate game sessions.

I’m not so nardy...errrr...groggy...errrrr....stuffy that I won’t play other editions.* I just haven’t seen anything in the D&D product family post 3.5Ed I’d ever consider running. I’ve got the initial 4Ed Core 3 plus LOTS of the player-centric books- those with classes, races, feats, etc., for example. But that’s it.



* Heck, my preferred system is HERO, in which I can- and have- run D&D-style games that crossed edition lines...at least as far as how “classes” worked.

 

[GreyLord]

I don't know...those who prefer 3e or 3.5 could be called the

3xers...

Or

ThreeXers.

4e...

Hmmm....

The WOWS...just joking...maybe the fourthers/4thers?

Grogs can play the later editions I'd say...they just prefer or would prefer to be playing the OLDER edition if possible or able to.

It's like with wargaming...I never stopped wargaming per se...(and still have quite a few around today...I have too much junk around my house...probably a nerd's dream with all the various books, rpg's, board games, and other things I have around), but I ALSO played RPGs.

Even that New fangled wargame thing RPG called D&D.

My opinion is that grognard for gaming is similar to what Napoleon's grogs were. They were the old elites who pined away about the old days.

In a similar fashion, a Grognard is anyone who played extensively (so not those one and done's or every so oftens) pre-2000 TSR AD&D and D&D (OD&D, B/X, BECMI, or RC) and pine about the good old days. They LOVE AD&D still and will defend it to the bone.

On the otherhand, those that put 3e or other versions as better or preferred and above AD&D join the ranks with the new players post TSR era.

The new groups that prefer what are now older than the current version (3.x or 4e rather than 5e) can have their own conotations (3xers or fourthers) but just like the new guard of Napoleon had to wait till the Grognards got cut down and went away, they have to wait till us old Grogs die off before claiming the title from our rulebooks and dice held in our cold dead hands in our coffins.

Like me, since I was a wargamer but also was a D&D player I couldn't be grognard till 20 years had passed (and even then till after 3e had come out...and then it was STILL questionable). I love Dragonlance...and play 5e so my grognardness may still be called in question. However, I'll still elect to play AD&D above all if given the shot...though normally it seems players these days that I find to play RPGs prefer systems that are the more modern RPGs (3.x, 4e, PF, 5e).

Will play 5e before 3e or 4e these days...so that may kill my grognard card still.

 

[GrahamWills]

Wiktionary:

grognard (plural grognards)

• An old soldier.
• A soldier of the original imperial guard that was created by Napoleon I in 1804 and that made the final French charge at Waterloo.
• (games, slang) Someone who enjoys playing older war-games or roleplaying games, or older versions of such games, when newer ones are available.

The term is strongly associated with "grumbling" in both the original and new use. So I think a good working definition is "Someone who enjoys playing older games, or older versions of such games, when newer ones are available, and grumbles about the new ones"

 

[GrahamWills]

Wiktionary:

grognard (plural grognards)

• An old soldier.
• A soldier of the original imperial guard that was created by Napoleon I in 1804 and that made the final French charge at Waterloo.
• (games, slang) Someone who enjoys playing older war-games or roleplaying games, or older versions of such games, when newer ones are available.

The term is strongly associated with "grumbling" in both the original and new use. So I think a good working definition is "Someone who enjoys playing older games, or older versions of such games, when newer ones are available, and grumbles about the new ones"


How did You Become a Grognard?
Step 1: You found you preferred an older game to a roughly equivalent newer one
Step 2: You grumbled about the new one

 

[Retreater]

By this definition, would gamers who didn't play 4e and went to PF because its similarity to 3.5, also be considered grognards? What about those who play 5e wanting a more nostalgic experience and traditional gameplay?

 

[ParanoydStyle]

Maybe I'm looking more at myself since I turned 40, but I'm wondering what traits led me to become a grognard?

1) Not using projectors for maps at the game table
2) Backing off from 4E to play Pathfinder a decade ago
3) Backing off from 5E to play 4E currently (haha)
4) Not following Critical Role
5) Not active on Discord or Reddit but preferring message boards like ENWorld
6) Using miniatures and tactical combat over "theater of the mind"
7) Not using D&D Beyond
8) Not getting into Virtual Tabletops like Fantasy Grounds or Roll 20
9) Using dice instead of die rolling apps
10) Not liking people using PDFs at the table (preferring physical copies)

I find myself wondering kind of the same thing. I'm not sure I'm a grognard, but I do know I'm quite set in more than a few of my ways when it comes to tabletop gaming.

I'm almost a decade younger than you, so I find myself wondering WHY I'm not in touch with things like Critical Role, not on top of things like Reddit or Discord, not "streaming" (I'm still a little baffled by the idea that a lot of young people are watching other people play D&D for fun, D&D is not a spectator sport in my mind, it's fun to do, not to watch.) I still live in the fond hope of doing the Ds&Ds for a living, it's the only thing I know how to do professionally and my physical & mental health problems make it hard to hold down a real job, so it's quite a disadvantage that I'm such a late adopter of these crucial marketing channels.

I've never had an interest in using D&D Beyond or Virtual Tabletops. I'm pretty positive that doesn't make one a grognard. I'm entirely sure that using real physical dice has nothing to do with being a grognard. I hate pseudo-RNGs and dice rolling apps.

Using projection maps on the game table has nothing to do with being of the Old Guard or not, I think: personally, I just don't have the technology, or the motivation to seek it out and implement it, for that kind of production values.

Anyway, I would only play 3.5 until last year, when I tried Pathfinder. I was going to be content with Pathfinder but lost the friends I was playing, so the only reason I finally came around to D&D 5E FIVE YEARS after it was released was that it's all anyone in my area was playing. I was pleasantly surprised that it was really good.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I have those dice!

And for the OP - I’d say you disqualified yourself from being a grognard by NOT using theater of the mind.

Oh, we had minis. But battlemats? Grids? Bah! That didn’t start until 2.5e. If a measurement needs to be made it’s with string or a tape.

But really the minis were to look cool, not to turn D&D combat into a board game. Theater of the mind is the real old school way (and I’m happy it’s made a comeback).

I beg to differ. Having started playing D&D in 1975 I assure you that there was combat on the table top with the terrain drawn out, and it was pretty much THE way it was done in our neck of the woods. I never heard of this 'Theater of the Mind' or playing without stuff laid out on the table with minis until at least the mid 80's and then we only did it because we were in college and just didn't have a large surface to use in our dorm rooms!

After I graduated and got my own place, we were right back to BIG table tops with full layouts. Even if we had a small table, still laid it all out. Did this in every type of game we played to varying degrees right on up to today.

I'm not saying everyone did this, but TotM is DEFINITELY NOT some 'Ur state' of D&D that has 'returned'.

 

[Zhaleskra]

Tangent: what do you call someone who grumbles about the mere existence of older gamers? Not anything that older gamers do, just that they are.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

I beg to differ. Having started playing D&D in 1975 I assure you that there was combat on the table top with the terrain drawn out, and it was pretty much THE way it was done in our neck of the woods. I never heard of this 'Theater of the Mind' or playing without stuff laid out on the table with minis until at least the mid 80's and then we only did it because we were in college and just didn't have a large surface to use in our dorm rooms!

After I graduated and got my own place, we were right back to BIG table tops with full layouts. Even if we had a small table, still laid it all out. Did this in every type of game we played to varying degrees right on up to today.

I'm not saying everyone did this, but TotM is DEFINITELY NOT some 'Ur state' of D&D that has 'returned'.

Simply a tongue-in-cheek over generalized response to the same.

But I don’t think that was the norm, it certainly wasn’t even for Gary’s games, and the mini-centric design didn’t really happen until Combat & Tactics. But as I’ve said, that didn’t come from nowhere, there were obviously a significant enough number of people to move that direction.