D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

Status
Not open for further replies.
Diversity of players and diversity of playstyle are two separate things.

WotC wants to do their best to support the first, but are not really concerned about the latter with regards to their own production. That's why they went OGL/DMs Guild originally... so that other companies could fill in all the blanks that they left open with regards to the product they were making. That way players could find all the additional material they wanted to satisfy whatever that playstyle was that they preferred. It's a shame too many players and DMs have poo-poo'd that and instead just keep wishing/hoping for WotC to finally get around to it. Even though they know in their heart-of-hearts that it isn't going to happen.
Diversity of players and diversity of playstyle does interact sometimes.

WOTC, IMHO, opted for a half elf/orc/dwarf solution that weaken the latter out of worry about the former. Whereas to me, diversity of playstyle helps solve the diversity of player issue.

WOTC 's choice determines how my half elf ranger or half orc wizard are translated from DDB to their VTT.

DM's guild stuff doesn't get on DNDB.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

You can make a lot of sales and be very successful without putting the highest or top tier quality.

Sure. There is whole other discussion to be had here. And I think it is a complicated one where there are opposing perspectives that each make rather good points. To be honest on this specific topic I have thought about it a lot and often find my position moving. On the one hand, sales and popularity don’t equal quality. A very bad song (at least in my opinion), let’s say one that uses an over used chord progression, has hardly a melody at all, and feels very repetitive without adding anything new each repetition, can soar to the top of the pop charts, and to me it looks like musicianship and song writing is in decline. I can definitely see a point there about RPG design and to an extent agree.

But I also think when I say this sort of thing I am parroting what I have been instructed to believe by music critics and by my music instructors. That music can in ways be measured by how well it resonates with people. A song with an unusual and complex chord progression, where repeated sections are always introducing something new to expand the experience and nags it less dull etc, may please me or music critics but if it fails to connect to a broader audience that is something that isn’t insignificant. And as bad as the hypothetical pop hit is, I know I couldn’t write a song that sells millions. The rebuttal ‘just try making a successful song/game’ has some weight I think

That said I think many more obscure games, movies, books, and music are much higher quality than a lot of what is successful. So I am always s but torn on this issue

However I do think 5E is good design. And I think they achieved their design abd commercial goals

I'm literally doing this right now at work.

Not saying 5e is bad or that WOTC has bad designers. But WOTC is now forced to make a change and because the community is diverse there is no easy solution that does not pivot in a way that does not upset a chunk of the base. They could offer multiple options but....

Honestly I think a lot of these conversations are louder on social media and in more academic circles than elsewhere. I could be wrong. But I like to think they could do something like keep the half elf, grow or stabilize the audience and bring in a wider range of players from a variety of backgrounds. Maybe I am wrong but if the OGL fiasco wasn’t a deal breaker for folks, I doubt half elf will be
 

Honestly I think a lot of these conversations are louder on social media and in more academic circles than elsewhere. I could be wrong. But I like to think they could do something like keep the half elf, grow or stabilize the audience and bring in a wider range of players from a variety of backgrounds. Maybe I am wrong but if the OGL fiasco wasn’t a deal breaker for folks, I doubt half elf will be
Oh for me it's not a deal breaker, it's just one more thing on the list of things keeping me away. :p One of the things I really like about Level Up is how elegantly it handles the whole mixed-heritage thing.
 

Honestly how I'd run hybrid races is following the rules in the book for the most part, however just like it tells you to take the average of the parent races lifespan traits, you would also figure out the average number of special traits for the two parent races and be able to pick a number of special traits from either race up to that average. Keeps hybrids from being wildly more powerful than the standard while also making them feel dynamic and distinct from their parent races
 

Honestly how I'd run hybrid races is following the rules in the book for the most part, however just like it tells you to take the average of the parent races lifespan traits, you would also figure out the average number of special traits for the two parent races and be able to pick a number of special traits from either race up to that average. Keeps hybrids from being wildly more powerful than the standard while also making them feel dynamic and distinct from their parent races
This is the Way.
 

It's quite common to reclaim things that are used as derogatory terms, but certainly not universal. My family takes a great deal of pride in being mixed, so we'll happily call ourselves stuff like "mutts" and "mongrels" because we pretty much dare anyone to try and treat it like a bad thing. Would never use that term at someone else though unless they expressed a similar preference, at which point we'd be high-fiving about it. Language usage is very, very individual.
Right, and those words sure as heck better not show up in official D&D as descriptors for Urozi (sounds orcish to me, made up name for hay-forks)
 

Honestly I think a lot of these conversations are louder on social media and in more academic circles than elsewhere. I could be wrong. But I like to think they could do something like keep the half elf, grow or stabilize the audience and bring in a wider range of players from a variety of backgrounds. Maybe I am wrong but if the OGL fiasco wasn’t a deal breaker for folks, I doubt half elf will be
I agree I think a solution where the half elf is kept in some fashion but the drama is kept down is possible.

After looking at MOTM, it is possible to redothe half elf by combining it with those of other fey parentage and just make that the replacement race.

FEYLING TRAITS
Creature Type: Humanoid
Size: Medium (about 5–6 feet tall) or Small
(about 2–4 feet tall), chosen when you select
this Race
Speed: 30 feet
Life Span: 180 years on average

Long Lived Ambition: You have a longer life and a strong sense of purpose. You gain Proficiency and Expertise in one Skill of your choice.

Feytouched Heritage. Choose a species. You can take feats or attune to magic items that have the chosen species as a prerequisite as long as you meet any other requirements..

Gift of the Fey: Either your fey heritage or boons gives you special minor abilities. Choose any 2 of the following
  • Darkvision. You have Darkvision with a range of 60 feet.
  • Fey Ancestry. You have Advantage on saving throws you make to avoid or end the Charmed Condition on yourself
  • Hag Mimicry: You can mimic animal sounds and humanoid voices. A creature that hears the sounds can tell they are imitations with a successful Wisdom (Insight) check.
  • Heart Sight. As a Magic action, you can touch a creature and magically knows the creature's current emotional state. If the target fails a Charisma saving throw against a DC equal to 8 + your Chraisma modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a failed saving throw. you also knows the creature's alignment. Celestials, fiends, and undead automatically fail the saving throw.
  • Natural Language. You instinctively know of of the language of nature. You can therefore speak, read, and write Druidic, Elven, or Sylvan
  • Something Dryadish


Faeling Origin
d8Origin
1One of your parents was a human and the other was an elf or some race with fey ancestors
2Oneof your parents was a halfing and the other was an elf or some race with fey ancestors
3One of your parents was a gnome and the other was an elf or some race with fey ancestors
4One of your parents was a human and the other was a fey
5One parent was an elf and the other was a fey
6Both of your parents were faelings
7Both parents were human, their fey heritage was dormant until you came along
8One of your parents made a pact with a fey
9You made a pact with a fey and your patron altered your form.
10A fey kidnapped you as a child, altered you, and returned you to your parents as a part of a twisted deal
 

I would argue this is an attitude that leads to bad art and not very entertaining media. Again having lived through the 80s when this stuff was coming at us from both the left and the right, I just can’t get behind the idea that art has a social responsibility like that. That isn’t to say it ought to be actively bad. But efforts to constrain art and entertainment under a moral framework, never seem to go well for art, artists, writers, designers or the audience because so often the people who are in charge of making those moral judgments don’t see nuance and completely miss the point

After reading this entire thread over the past few days, I've noticed you keep making this same argument over and over, that the "quality" of the art/media is bad if it is inclusive. That if we don't include things like racism in the game, it leads to boring design and forces artists to make terrible, derivative art...

And that's just false? Like, completely false.

The first example I can think of off the top of my head is slightly NSFW, but there is a series (comic and show) called "Interspecies Reviewers". This series has little to no racism in their world. Just... it doesn't exist. No one calls elves "twigs" or "knife-ears", no one calls the beast folk "animals". But there is ONE bit of almost racism that exists, and it is actually the part I want to talk about.

In the setting "fiends" are seen in a negative light. Not like denied services or insulted or anything, but they have a bit of a negative association, people don't seek them out as partners, ect. We only know this because a member of the fiend political party that is trying to raise votes for their platform contacts the main characters and asks them to review a fiend brothel (the entire premise of the series being an ecchi journey of reviewing various brothels). And what they find, almost immediately, is a little known fact about fiends... they take contracts literally. Even spoken ones. So, a man who proposes to a fiend woman and declares "I will make you the happiest woman in the world" gets pissed at the guy if she is not the happiest woman in the world, because they made a deal and he is breaking it. And they spread the word of this, and that misunderstanding is cleared up.

But the world isn't boring. The world is fascinating, with tons of interesting takes on various species and how they can use their special abilities. The only reason the almost milk toast racism of "hmm, fiends have nasty personalities" exists is solely to show this really interesting take on fiends. And I would argue it isn't even really a racism, just a stereotype.

And this isn't the only world I have encountered, made by an artist, that doesn't use racism or some of these other "negative qualities" to be interesting. You don't have to be offensive to be interesting, or to make good art. I mean, would the original Star Wars trilogy be better with more racism in it? It doesn't have any that I can think of, no one treats chewie as less than a person because he is a wookie. And as a writer and creative person... I don't see it. I don't see this NEED to include these things. You can, if you want, but it isn't NEEDED. There are other ways to be interesting, especially since to be interesting, you usually need to be doing something new, and having people hate other people based on superficial qualities of race/species isn't new. It is old, well-tread ground.
 

As for the rest of the discussion. I'm not against making a chart where you can break down the point value of every species and mix and match your numbers... but that should be a DMG thing. Because it is very complex and would take up a ton of room.

And I'd prefer to paint over half-elves and half-orcs a little bit, so that I can have my half-goblins, half-gnomes, half-goliaths, elf/dwarves, dwarf/gnomes, dwarf/goblins, orc/elves, ect ect ect. As has been pointed out, to make a "half" species for every core race would mean we need an additional 511 entries. For every single species in the game? We'd be talking THOUSANDS of unique mixed-species. That's just impossible, and I don't like the idea of saying "only these two legacy ones are important enough to actually create"

Is the current version a bad option? Sure, it doesn't do a lot that I wish it could. But I agree with the other poster who stated "I'd rather not have perfect be the enemy of good enough". This opens things up, and leaves room for more complex rules later. And I'm fine with that.
 

After reading this entire thread over the past few days, I've noticed you keep making this same argument over and over, that the "quality" of the art/media is bad if it is inclusive. That if we don't include things like racism in the game, it leads to boring design and forces artists to make terrible, derivative art...
Though racism itself might not be needed in DnD, I'd argue that some form of 'bad' is needed in order to be the antagonist for the player characters.

In a game where the players often end up literally stabbing the other side to death, I sure as hell hope that they're fighting 'bad' guys who have done some significant evil in some way.

Dark themes like the bad guys being racists or slavers often just make it easier for the DM to justify why their players want to go and stab said people to death with sharp bits of metal.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top