Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
basically 4e doesn't have any mechanism for doing it unless you can find it in a power somewhere*. Good luck.
* or your DM is happy to come up with a houserule for doing it.
How do I throw people?
- Thread starter Kest
- Start date
basically 4e doesn't have any mechanism for doing it unless you can find it in a power somewhere*. Good luck.
* or your DM is happy to come up with a houserule for doing it.
Engilbrand
First Post
We reflavor nearly everything that we do. I would make my role for a Bull Rush. If succeeded, I would describe my guy crouching low, picking up the enemy by the throat and waist, spinning with him, and throwing him. Knowing my group, rolling really high and describing it in an awesome way would probably mean that the guy wasn't able to land on his feet. Either that, or he'd need to make a save before he hit to see if he landed.
Tripping is too good, usually, to just be a standard action that isn't tied to a special power.
Remember, the powers are just mechanics. The fun part of the game is making the mechanics come out in a fun and interesting way when you use them in combat.
Tripping is too good, usually, to just be a standard action that isn't tied to a special power.
Remember, the powers are just mechanics. The fun part of the game is making the mechanics come out in a fun and interesting way when you use them in combat.
It ranks right up there with Grab or Total Defense - it is a simple move that adds flexibility to the combat system. If a troll or giant wanted to pick up and throw someone, you wouldn't need a power for that. That would be ridiculous.
I thought there might be a consensus already on how to deal with this. After all, 3.5 had a detailed section on Trips and Grapples that any character could perform.
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Lord Ernie
First Post
Actually, a Troll or Giant picking someone up and throwing them is a PERFECT example for a power, and one that I might well work into one of them in my coming sessions. To see a good example of how this sort of thing can get worked into a power, see the Bugbear Strangler for details.
Also, for a normally sized person to pull the same trick, I'd put that as one hell of a stunt with a very high DC indeed if they tried it on something their own size (let's not start about something any sizes larger), and barring very stupid enemies indeed, they wouldn't fall for that trick twice (as in: it only works 1/Encounter max).
Giving someone an option that's more valid than most powers, and is basically At-Will invalidates the entire power framework and more importantly, turns them into one-trick ponies (I'm reminded of OOTS's take on this for 3.5, here).
Seriously, stop thinking 'powers are bad'.
Also, for a normally sized person to pull the same trick, I'd put that as one hell of a stunt with a very high DC indeed if they tried it on something their own size (let's not start about something any sizes larger), and barring very stupid enemies indeed, they wouldn't fall for that trick twice (as in: it only works 1/Encounter max).
Giving someone an option that's more valid than most powers, and is basically At-Will invalidates the entire power framework and more importantly, turns them into one-trick ponies (I'm reminded of OOTS's take on this for 3.5, here).
Seriously, stop thinking 'powers are bad'.
There's a troll in the Siege of Bordrin's Watch with a power that grabs a character, and another attack that uses that character as a melee weapon. A similar power could launch a creature as a missile.
I lean on the side of reserving throwing as part of a power if knocking prone is to be part of the action, or using a flavored bull rush if the prone condition is not mandated by the attack.
I lean on the side of reserving throwing as part of a power if knocking prone is to be part of the action, or using a flavored bull rush if the prone condition is not mandated by the attack.
keterys
First Post
Fwiw, almost any forced movement or knock prone can be a throw. Spinning Sweep could be using your weapon to knock someone over from above, take out their legs from below, a kicked trip, or a grab with one hand and combined hammer and throw down to the ground.
And there are lots of forced movement exploits. Less prone ones, but there certainly could be more...
And there are lots of forced movement exploits. Less prone ones, but there certainly could be more...
urzafrank
First Post
Hello i see you are new to these boards. I would like to say Welcome. By your posts it would seem as you are new to 4E as well. 4E is powers based even basic attack in 4E are power so what you describe would be a power.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
I agree that as a general rule stuff like this should be reserved for powers. That is any kind of move that PC is going to use often, they should need a power for. However there are those moments when it just makes a lot of sense for someone to try something like that and there is no appropriate power available.
That is one of the things the stunt system is for. Just make the PC grab the target and then expend another standard action to toss the monster back a square and knock it prone, using another STR vs FORT roll to succeed. Allowing some small amount of damage to result is OK as well. I think it would also be appropriate to rule that throwing provokes OA.
Mechanically my argument goes like this: It requires 2 standard actions, with 2 attack rolls required in order to succeed. This makes it inferior in general to any power, including the basic bull rush action. On the other hand it does knock the target prone and it does do SOME damage. Prone is NOT that big a deal. Yes, it grants CA until the target stands up, and effectively immobilizes them for a round, but in most situations the latter factor is not all that big a deal. The CA is pretty good, but there are plenty of ways to get CA and most of them are cheaper than expending 2 standard actions.
It is unlikely that PCs are going to start doing this all the time for a number of reasons. Really in 99% of situations an attack form that requires 2 standard actions and provokes OA to do say 1d6 damage, push, and knock prone is pretty weak compared to using a bull rush plus an at-will to do the same pushback. Second it will quickly become obsolete because you can't get enhancement bonuses to unarmed attacks. So by paragon tier it will already on average be subject to a -3 to-hit effectively for each attack roll, plus by then PCs will certainly have powers that do similar things more effectively and without the lack of enhancement bonus.
I know a LOT of DMs these days seem to be of the opinion that these kinds of things just should be disallowed as 'unbalancing', but if all anyone can do are the stock actions then why not just play computer games? The whole point of a human moderated game is flexibility. The last thing any good DM should be is inflexible.
That is one of the things the stunt system is for. Just make the PC grab the target and then expend another standard action to toss the monster back a square and knock it prone, using another STR vs FORT roll to succeed. Allowing some small amount of damage to result is OK as well. I think it would also be appropriate to rule that throwing provokes OA.
Mechanically my argument goes like this: It requires 2 standard actions, with 2 attack rolls required in order to succeed. This makes it inferior in general to any power, including the basic bull rush action. On the other hand it does knock the target prone and it does do SOME damage. Prone is NOT that big a deal. Yes, it grants CA until the target stands up, and effectively immobilizes them for a round, but in most situations the latter factor is not all that big a deal. The CA is pretty good, but there are plenty of ways to get CA and most of them are cheaper than expending 2 standard actions.
It is unlikely that PCs are going to start doing this all the time for a number of reasons. Really in 99% of situations an attack form that requires 2 standard actions and provokes OA to do say 1d6 damage, push, and knock prone is pretty weak compared to using a bull rush plus an at-will to do the same pushback. Second it will quickly become obsolete because you can't get enhancement bonuses to unarmed attacks. So by paragon tier it will already on average be subject to a -3 to-hit effectively for each attack roll, plus by then PCs will certainly have powers that do similar things more effectively and without the lack of enhancement bonus.
I know a LOT of DMs these days seem to be of the opinion that these kinds of things just should be disallowed as 'unbalancing', but if all anyone can do are the stock actions then why not just play computer games? The whole point of a human moderated game is flexibility. The last thing any good DM should be is inflexible.
Wraith Form
Explorer
I'm creating a monster (http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/252897-robot-enforcer-please-critique.html) that has, basically, Doctor Octopus arms: mech tentacles with sizable grabby claws.
These monsters hover, so they can fly vertically to the 106th floor of a skyscraper, burst through a window, snag a body, and throw the person out the window to their death. Or across the room if I don't feel like being a rat bastard.
How would you adjudicate that type of "throw"?
~~ later ~~
A poster in the thread I referenced above got it:
These monsters hover, so they can fly vertically to the 106th floor of a skyscraper, burst through a window, snag a body, and throw the person out the window to their death. Or across the room if I don't feel like being a rat bastard.
How would you adjudicate that type of "throw"?
~~ later ~~
A poster in the thread I referenced above got it:
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