D&D 5E How Do Monks Survive At Low Levels?

[FormerlyHemlock]

No denying that monk damage output lags significantly in ranged combat though.

Yes, it does, because no Archery style means no +2 to hit. But that's pretty minor under bounded accuracy, and the enemy's damage output is even worse, due to missile deflection. The optimal strategy for the ranger will often be to sit back behind total cover and let the monk handle the ranged attackers; once it's down to melee only, the ranger can help mop up.

I've seen a 7th-level Shadow Monk solo a whole Deadly squad of hobgoblins, IIRC seven of them, taking only two hits in the process. I don't think a ranger would do as well. Monks are just fine in ranged combat.

 

[mellored]

I don't think I agree about monks being melee-oriented, or that rangers/etc. are better at ranged combat. Monks have high AC, no need for shields, high movement, and missile deflection. Put a ranger up against a monk in a missile duel and I'm betting the monk will be the survivor/winner, anytime after third level. Remember to lie prone between turns to impose disadvantage, which disproportionately favors the monk.

Low level monks do not have high AC. 14-16, depending on which race you took.

Any anyone can lie prone. Monks do not get anything special there. They also don't have archery style, or archery spells.


Anyways, yes, monks are fairly bad below level 5. Flurry of blows let's them pop into melee with a nice nova, but it's not sustainable enough. Stunning strike at level 5 drastically changes things however, and getting 16-17 AC doesn't hurt either.
You could survive by going moon druid 2. They are OP at level 2, monk's AC bonus works, and who doesn't want kungfu panda? Birdman monks are also great. Slow fall is a major boon to their otherwise big downside.

 

[Leugren]

Low level monks do not have high AC. 14-16, depending on which race you took.

Any anyone can lie prone. Monks do not get anything special there. They also don't have archery style, or archery spells.


Anyways, yes, monks are fairly bad below level 5. Flurry of blows let's them pop into melee with a nice nova, but it's not sustainable enough. Stunning strike at level 5 drastically changes things however, and getting 16-17 AC doesn't hurt either.
You could survive by going moon druid 2. They are OP at level 2, monk's AC bonus works, and who doesn't want kungfu panda? Birdman monks are also great. Slow fall is a major boon to their otherwise big downside.

Thanks, mellored. I agree that Moon Druids are OP at low levels of play. Would you go Monk 1 / Moon Druid 2 / Monk X for a build like this? I think a major turning point for Monks is access to the Mobility feat at level 4 (or 1 for Variant Humans), since this allows them to dart in and out of melee combat reliably, thereby bringing all of their Monk abilities to bear without fear of getting locked down and pasted.

 

[mellored]

Thanks, mellored. I agree that Moon Druids are OP at low levels. Would you go Monk 1 / Moon Druid 2 / Monk X for a build like this?

Probably moon 2, then monk. Though ask your DM how he interprets unarmed strike/flurry of blows in bear form.

 

[MwaO]

Monks are fine...
They should have an 18 Dex, 16 Wis, and 14-16 Con at 4th level assuming point buy. If that's not true, you're investing in things you don't need. Which can be perfectly fine, but if you're complaining that your Monk seems fragile or ineffective, well then, that's the problem right there.

Your goal ought to be to stun opponents at 5th+, so things leading away from that being successful(such as feats that don't bump up Dex/Wis to the next higher round number...Mobile...) should be avoided. Open Hand tradition is awesome because your targets will then auto-fail Dex/Str saves. So push targets next to each other into burst formation for your caster. Only +2 Dex/+1 Wisdom races who pick up Athlete and Variant Humans should have feats by 4th level.

Spears are a great Monk weapon for Martial Arts. Wield them with 2-hands for 1d8 damage or throw them and then move up to the target and get your bonus action attack. Carry some javelins on top of that for when you know you need to throw a weapon.

Recognize that leaving an opponent capable of attacking means they still get to do their attack and likely pick their choice of target. That's something to be avoided if it has any cost or no benefit to the party. So spending a bonus action and ki point to disengage over doing damage is usually a horrible use of resources.

 

[mellored]

Monks are fine...
They should have an 18 Dex, 16 Wis, and 14-16 Con at 4th level assuming point buy.

Assuming a matching race.
If you want a dragonborn monk, your don't have nearly that much going for you.

Your goal ought to be to stun opponents at 5th+

The issue is before level 5.

After level 5, monks do fine. Maybe even a little OP at higher level with flurry of stuns, but before 5 they struggle.

 

[MwaO]

Assuming a matching race.
If you want a dragonborn monk, your don't have nearly that much going for you.

If you're having a problem making a monk playable at low levels and you're looking in the Dragonborn section of the shopping aisle, that's a sign that maybe you shouldn't be playing a monk.

The issue is before level 5.

After level 5, monks do fine. Maybe even a little OP at higher level with flurry of stuns, but before 5 they struggle.

They shouldn't be struggling. They have good defenses, damage, and mobility until level 5. Sure, they're not Moon Druids, but if your DM is structuring the game around Moon Druids, then that's a completely different kind of problem.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Low level monks do not have high AC. 14-16, depending on which race you took.

Any anyone can lie prone. Monks do not get anything special there. They also don't have archery style, or archery spells.


Anyways, yes, monks are fairly bad below level 5. Flurry of blows let's them pop into melee with a nice nova, but it's not sustainable enough. Stunning strike at level 5 drastically changes things however, and getting 16-17 AC doesn't hurt either.
You could survive by going moon druid 2. They are OP at level 2, monk's AC bonus works, and who doesn't want kungfu panda? Birdman monks are also great. Slow fall is a major boon to their otherwise big downside.

Monk AC can range up to 17 or 18, 19 with ridiculous rolls. But 16 is definitely not the cap. Guess what the ranger's AC is when wielding a longbow? Also 16, unless he rolled 20 Dex and then it's 17. Monk's AC is about as high as an archer gets, especially at low level. Competitive.

Anyone can lie prone, but the monk gets more out of it than the ranger does due to missile catching. Try it.

 

[Leugren]

Monks are fine...
They should have an 18 Dex, 16 Wis, and 14-16 Con at 4th level assuming point buy. If that's not true, you're investing in things you don't need. Which can be perfectly fine, but if you're complaining that your Monk seems fragile or ineffective, well then, that's the problem right there.

Your goal ought to be to stun opponents at 5th+, so things leading away from that being successful(such as feats that don't bump up Dex/Wis to the next higher round number...Mobile...) should be avoided. Open Hand tradition is awesome because your targets will then auto-fail Dex/Str saves. So push targets next to each other into burst formation for your caster. Only +2 Dex/+1 Wisdom races who pick up Athlete and Variant Humans should have feats by 4th level.

Spears are a great Monk weapon for Martial Arts. Wield them with 2-hands for 1d8 damage or throw them and then move up to the target and get your bonus action attack. Carry some javelins on top of that for when you know you need to throw a weapon.

Recognize that leaving an opponent capable of attacking means they still get to do their attack and likely pick their choice of target. That's something to be avoided if it has any cost or no benefit to the party. So spending a bonus action and ki point to disengage over doing damage is usually a horrible use of resources.

It seems to me that you're just handwaving the whole squishiness issue away by declaring that "monks are fine 'coz they get Stunning Hand at level 5". It's not a good argument. To reach level 5, monks have to survive the levels which precede it, and they are quite weak at those levels thanks to rogue AC, rogue HP, melee-oriented class abilities, and no consistent way to dart in and out of combat. If you were to preface your argument with "I played a monk from levels 1 through X, and I generally had no problems surviving because of Y", then your comments would be more helpful.

 

[Leugren]

Monk AC can range up to 17 or 18, 19 with ridiculous rolls. But 16 is definitely not the cap. Guess what the ranger's AC is when wielding a longbow? Also 16, unless he rolled 20 Dex and then it's 17. Monk's AC is about as high as an archer gets, especially at low level. Competitive.

Anyone can lie prone, but the monk gets more out of it than the ranger does due to missile catching. Try it.

I tend to assume that the standard point-buy system is being used in all of the games I play, Hemlock. You are, of course, correct--with above average rolls, a monk can start with an AC above 16, which would help to mitigate some of the squishiness at low levels.