How do you deal with canon fanatics?

[jdrakeh]

I suspect that this is a problem many GMs of many game systems have run into at one time or another:

GM: "I'd like to run a game in the Setting X, though I think I'm going to add a city here and introduce some social themes there, and. . ."

Canon Fan: "NO! If you're not using it EXACTLY AS WRITTEN, you're using it WRONG!"

That sounds pretty extreme, I assure you, though I've seen it happen more times than I'd care to recount. I received a similar response when asking certain questions about the Scarred Lands recently (much to my chagrin) and I'm starting to think that buying into the setting full tilt was a mistake if "Why would you ever change it? It's perfect as written!" is going to be a commonplace response to exercising creativity.

This drove me crazy in FR 2e and I don't see it sitting well with me anytime soon.

So, my question is, how do you deal with players who get overly excited when you, as the GM (or DM, if you prefer) add to or otherwise alter material for a given setting? In the past, I've simply explained to people that canon in the context of a RPG isn't binding (otherwise, it would be defeating the primary allure of RPGs) and that if they think is should be, then they really need to find another game to play in, because they'll hate mine.

It has come to my attention that, while effective, blunt honesty won't win me any admiration. This being the case, I'm examining better, more effective, ways to address the issue when/if it arises during actual play. So. . . how have you dealt with this issue in your own game and/or game groups?

 

[STARP_Social_Officer]

This has never happened to me. If it did, I have a simple response I think would be appropriate:

"Shut the hell up and get out."

Works every time.
Rule One: The DM is always right.
Rule Two: See Rule One.

 

[jdrakeh]

This has never happened to me. If it did, I have a simple response I think would be appropriate:

"Shut the hell up and get out."

Works every time.
Rule One: The DM is always right.
Rule Two: See Rule One.

That works in the short-term, in the long-term it can limit your access to the local player pool. Which is pretty much what happened to me in Topeka, insofar as D&D was concerned (the good news is that this got me involved in many other games).

 

[Doug McCrae]

That works in the short-term, in the long-term it can limit your access to the local player pool. Which is pretty much what happened to me in Topeka, insofar as D&D was concerned.

Were players really that picky? They wouldn't play unless you adhered strictly to canon?

 

[Arkhandus]

Simple. I almost never run a game in any established campaign setting. Homebrews all the way!

Well, OK, I did run a Rokugan campaign at one point and would do so again, but only heavily modified from the get-go, to where no one could claim it was supposed to adhere to what they know of Rokugan that I don't. Can't claim it's canon Rokugan when I have dwarven psions from the west and elven samurai and halfling wu jen running about!

 

[merelycompetent]

I suspect that this is a problem many GMs of many game systems have run into at one time or another: ...
So, my question is, how do you deal with players who get overly excited when you, as the GM (or DM, if you prefer) add to or otherwise alter material for a given setting? In the past, I've simply explained to people that canon in the context of a RPG isn't binding (otherwise, it would be defeating the primary allure of RPGs) and that if they think is should be, then they really need to find another game to play in, because they'll hate mine.

It has come to my attention that, while effective, blunt honesty won't win me any admiration. This being the case, I'm examining better, more effective, ways to address the issue when/if it arises during actual play. So. . . how have you dealt with this issue in your own game and/or game groups?

I have run into it before.

Whenever I start a campaign, I always give the players a handout that details what house rules or rules interpretations I'll be using. I also bluntly point out that this setting is MY version of Greyhawk, FR, Scarred Lands, etc. If the player is uncomfortable with the idea of me changing fundamental game world icons (Bigby became a Paladin, the gods got together and obliterated Elminster from existence, two of the titans faked their imprisonment, etc.), then this isn't the game for him or her. In other words, I've done pretty much what you described.

I don't know of any better way to recruit players for a game other than blunt honesty. If I don't make my changes, I won't have fun running the game -- and life is too short to waste 6-10 hours of my free time each week doing something I don't enjoy. If the player and I clash at play styles, there will either be an enjoyable, respectful, and polite compromise; or there will be a new player. Occasionally, this has resulted in a new group of players. A couple of times, I lacked the resources (and had DM burnout) to find players and DM's whose gaming styles got along with mine. During those dry spells, I took up other hobbies to enjoyably fill the time until I found other more compatible people.

I don't know of any other sane or reasonable way to do it that also allows me, as DM, to have fun.

 

[jdrakeh]

Were players really that picky? They wouldn't play unless you adhered strictly to canon?

Yep. Oddly, though, amongst D&D settings, this response seemed to only be typical of FR 2e fans (which is why I mentioned it in the original post). I recall much fuss when I ignored most of the continuity from the FR novels at the time (I didn't read them and, thus, didn't give two whits about the events that transpired therein). That said. . .

I also saw loads of this (and still do, on occasion) from oWoD fans. I've seen more than a few Storytellers eviscerated for straying from established metaplot revealed in obscure sourcebooks (that the ST understandably didn't own) or (worse) crappy novels that only the most devout VTM fans would pay money for.

The Scarred Lands 'suggestion' asking why I would ever even consider exploring social issues in a fantasy setting (specifically the Scarred Lands) really put out the "This setting is for X only!" vibe. Big time. And I really need to prepare for that kind of response from local players in a more productive way than saying:

"Screw you! I'm the DM and if you don't like it, you can piss off!"

Because. . . ah. . . again, that's a pretty short-term solution that causes some very real long-term problems (notably, most sane people won't play with such a person).

 

[jdrakeh]

Simple. I almost never run a game in any established campaign setting. Homebrews all the way!

That's the ideal solution, though as I mention elsewhere, I have a very time-consuming day job and several other responsibilities more important than gaming. This being the case, I simply do not have the time to design my own settings from scratch anymore.

 

[crazy_monkey1956]

There's only one published setting that I really (as in, really, really) wanted to run pretty much as written. Council of Wyrms.

Other than that, I've either run homebrews, or did the following...

Spell out from the onset, before characters are rolled up, what the setting is and how you DM it...including any changes from canon. If a player isn't ok with that, politely tell them that this may not be a good game for them to play in.

Another solution I used when running a brief Forgotten Realms campaign in 2nd edition. A) The players knew less about FR than I did. B) I used a relatively obscure little corner of the Realms and didn't travel beyond it.

Another perspective to take it from, which Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman have advocated when comparing "their" Dragonlance to other writer's works in published Dragonlance novels: The game books are used as the campaign setting for gaming and the novels are stories told by bards that often vary from bard to bard. In the Realms, Drizzt, in this example, is a near legendary figure that no one has ever met, although the bard telling the tale of how the drow ranger singlehandedly killed a thousand orcs swears he heard the story from his uncle's friend's cousin who served in the Silver Marches army that saw the whole thing.

 

[ashockney]

First, are you looking for a win/win or a win/lose scenario:

In a win/lose scenario, either fight fire with fire, or find they're kryptonite. I'll take a random guess here, but your solutions are essentially to play up on one or two sentences in a key sourcebook, and build an entire adventure/scenario out of them, and if questioned, then quote them verbatim. Rarely is the detail anywhere near this granular in setting/source material. Alternatively, find their kryptonite, which I'm guessing would be somthing like, "let's play D&D minis". Cannon that!

If, as I'm supposing, you're looking for a win-win scenario, as I would be, the answer is quite simple, and quite common, but worth repeating. Communicate, communicate, communicate. You need to understand your players needs intimiately, and if that includes playing in a "cannon" rpg, then use it to your advantage. Something like, "ok guys, I'm not the expert and don't have time to read everything, so I'll need a co-DM on most of my adventure ideas, and I'll rotate it around among people. I'll come up with the monsters, spells, and stuff, but I may need some thoughts from you on how to set it properly into the scenario/environment, without affecting the milieu." I've done exactly this with AMAZING consequences, and superb games as a result. Alternately, your players need to understand your needs, and how their behaviors at the table will affect the gameplay for everyone. Getting "called out" during the game, isn't really fun for anyone. That's a behavior that needs to be addressed and curbed. Your players need to understand how much work goes into being the DM, and that you've got a very critical limited constraint to deal with for your 3.5 edition game: TIME to prepare. It's a big one, and you're not alone my friend.

Good luck, and good gaming!