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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6724325" data-attributes="member: 6681948">This was the "you are supposed to fight the bandits, not surrender your money or flee" example.  The GM clearly expected the players to fight the bandits.  Having the bandits take the wizard's money and leave, or shake their fists and curse the fleeing PC's cowardice, would be improvising.  Having the bandits attack the wizard anyway, and suddenly have the means to catch the fellow on horseback, is not improvising - it is failing to improvise by forcing the battle to happen as planned.Drift happens.  Your "players" are venturing off the "adventure path" into a side quest, or perhaps are abandoning your plot, never to return.  Why are you trying to railroad them back onto your pre-planned discussion topic?I'd call that a form of railroading - no matter where you go, there's that temple.  It could not  be avoided.This is just a matter of degree.  I could say "fine, they walk away from the temple".  And there will be another temple wherever they go in a few days (and this one now retroactively has the encounters I wanted to run).  I could say "NOOOOOO!!!!!  You have to explore the temple - that is the game today!!!!!"  I could have them encounter a steady series of "clues" that they should go back and explore the temple.  Or I could just refuse to dangle any more adventure hooks until they either go back to explore that temple, or die of boredom.  All of these are forms of railroading - I am forcing the temple upon them.In a true sandbox, that key sits in the temple.  Maybe that means the plot that hinged on it ends and the PC's go do something else.  Perhaps it means that the PC's all die because they needed that key to succeed.  Too bad.  They made their choices, and nothing in the game can change to alter the consequences of those choices.  "Bad sandbox"?  Sure.  But it's still the sandbox.CHOO CHOO!!!  To not railroad this, well, since they did not find the clue, then I guess they will not follow up the plot thread.  Put all 15 levels of that plot aside, since the players have chosen, albeit unknowingly, not to pursue it.  They choose not to go to the Dragon's cave?  Then they do not encounter he Dragon - that was their choice.  Putting the Dragon back in their path?  Railroad.That railroad is neither good nor bad, intrinsically, but it denies the players the ability to avoid (deliberately or accidentally) the plot the GM wants them to pursue.CHOO CHOO - if they choose not to go after the dragon (whether for now, or for ever), then they do not go after the Dragon.  Move on to a different plot - the players have rejected this one.Why does anything in the forest need to be related to the plot you wish to railroad the players into?  Perhaps the forest is filled with giant spiders, who are bred there by Drow, and the players can find their secret entrance to the Underdark and spend the rest of the campaign exploring it, leaving the dragon in peace.  THAT is a sandbox.Agreed absolutely.</blockquote>

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