How do you guys do Hps? And why?

[Mordeth]

In a campaign that I play in, hp rolls are becoming a real issue. The Rog2/Fig1 has 16 hps while the Dru3 has 32. I believe their cons are 14/16 respectively. Obviously. he rolled really bad, a 1 on his fighter level no less.

My point is, he is basicly crippled as a melee class. He goes down in every fight, and he is playing pretty defensive. I know that there are things that he could do to make up for the loss, mainly wasting feats.

What I dont understand is the random factor away from combat.

You dont roll for feats.
You dont roll for skill points.
You dont roll for class abilites.

Away from combat, I "think" that is the only rolls that we do on our character sheets. I just dont feel its balanced that person can play a fighter for example, and be crippled by bad hp rolls. The HP is the meat and drink of a tank class. How many sorcs would play the class if they had to roll for how many spells the coul cast at each level? "Damn, I can only cast 1 1st level spell and 2 2nd level spells at 4th "

What do you think? Am I off base on my thinking? I put this is Rules forum and not in House rules because maybe it needs to be changed. Any thoughts or comments are always appreciated.

 

[Christian]

My DM lets us re-roll ones. Once-if you roll a one a second time on hit points, you're stuck. Decreases the frequency of the problem, but doesn't eliminate it.

In the game I run, the player gets to choose at each level whether to roll or use the 'fixed hit points' option from the DMG (half max). Using the latter option lowers your average, but eliminates the possibility of sucky rolls-I generally recommend using it the first few levels for fighters and clerics. If you choose not to do that, you're not allowed to complain about rolling poorly for hit points.

 

[Drawmack]

I voted other. At each level I allow the players to choose. They can either baseline (hd/2) or roll the bones. If they roll the die they are stuck with whatever they get.

What I dont understand is the random factor away from combat.

You dont roll for feats.

No and everyone (except classes with bonus feats) get the same exact feat progressions. Those with bonus feats that progression is taken into account when balancing the classes. For example who would take fighter if every other level he got to roll d% and if it was over 50 could take a feat, but if under 50 sorry.

You dont roll for skill points.

Again this is a balancing factor of the class. Some classes spend more time learning and honing skills then other classes, therefor those classes get more skill points. For example who would take rogue if you got 1d8 skill points per level instead of 8 skill points per level.

You dont roll for class abilites.

That's just silly.

Away from combat, I "think" that is the only rolls that we do on our character sheets. I just dont feel its balanced that person can play a fighter for example, and be crippled by ba hp rolls. The HP is the meat and drink of a tank class. How many sorcs would play the class if they had to roll for how many spells the coul cast at each level? "Damn, I can only cast 1 1st level spell and 2 2nd level spells at 4th "

You are wrong the feats are the meat of the fighter, just like the class abilities are the meat of every class. The fighter gets a d10 every level. Thats an average of 5hp/level at 20th level that's an average of 100 + con bonus * 20 hp. On top of that when you increase your con you get the hp retroactivly. This means that a fighter with even 12 starting con can have a con of (12 + 20/4) 17 = and average of 100 + 60 = 160 hit points. A rogue doesn't get to apply int increases to skills retroactivly. On top of this the fighter can take feats to improve hit points even more.

Here is a break down of the arverage hit points for someone with 12 con at 20th level.
Barbarian 6.5*20 + 20 = 150
Fighter, Paladin, Ranger 5.5 * 20 + 20 = 130
Cleric, Druid, Monk 4.5*20 + 20 = 110
Bard, Rogue 3.5*20 + 20 = 90
Sorcerer, Wizard 2.5 * 20 + 20 = 70

Taking the average hit points and looking at the martialness of the class the only class that seems a bit off is the fighter. But remember that a fighter gets 11 bonus feats. This makes the fighter one of, if not the, most customizable classes. You've got to pay for that somewhere.

There is an optional rule in the core rulebooks for baselinning hit points. hd/2 + con every level. If you don't like rolling just use that.

 

[Plane Sailing]

In all the campaigns I run and play in the hp die is rolled and the PC lives with the consequences.

I've recently become quite disatisfied with this for the same kind of reasons that you outline - a single bad roll stays with you for ever.

An interesting idea that Empire of the Petal Throne had back in the 1970's was that at each level you rolled your full number of HD and kept whichever was better - your current total or your last level. You were less likely to get really high or really low values, but if you rolled really well (probably at relatively low level) that could keep you above average for quite a few levels to come.

I'd seriously consider going for a static portion of HD in the future though. After all, a barbarian might get 1d12 as his HD size, but if he rolls poorly he might be no better off in terms of hp gained than the sorcerer. It is a great boost at 1st level, but HD size is only a *potential* benefit, not necessarily a "real" benefit (they may roll poorly)

Cheers

 

[Fenes 2]

We generally roll, but bad results, especially for melee PCs, are rerolled until the hitpoints "fit". We play together, not against each other, and if sticking to the "roll once and keep it" rules hampers our fun, then the rule gets changed.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: Re: How do you guys do Hps? And why?

Here is a break down of the arverage hit points for someone with 12 con at 20th level.
Barbarian 6.5*20 + 20 = 150
Fighter, Paladin, Ranger 5.5 * 20 + 20 = 130
Cleric, Druid, Monk 4.5*20 + 20 = 110
Bard, Rogue 3.5*20 + 20 = 90
Sorcerer, Wizard 2.5 * 20 + 20 = 70

I think the problem being identified isn't about averages though, it is about particulars.

The 20th level barbarian above could have rolled 1 on every single HD and end up with 12+19+20=51 hp. That would be an extraordinarily fragile "melee character". At least he wouldn't have to worry about failing a "massive damage" save

To be more realistic, the barbarian might easily roll a 1 when he reaches 2nd level - and that puts him below the average for ever (unless he gets lucky and rolls high).

Sure *on average* he will end up with avg hp... but in actual fact people can end up well below. I have a fighter type who is 4th level and his hp rolls were 10 + 5 + 4 + 1. Great. barring CON bonuses I have 20hp when I might have expected 26. What is worse, a comerade who is otherwise identical got 10+9+10+9 = 38hp! He is nearly twice as resiliant just because he rolled well (and those die rolls stay with him for ever!)

Cheers

 

[hammymchamham]

my game: roll or take avareage. half roll, half take the average.

1st game: 1/2 + 1 at every level (unless you really want to roll)

2nd Game: Roll.

(1st and 2nd game are games I play in)

 

[kramis]

4 + 4 system

I had the same problem and solve it using what I call the 4+4 system. I apply the system equally to monsters and NPC's so it's fine for balance, and makes the players happy, and I think it's more fair class wise ... fighters always have more hit points than wizards.

The way it works is everyone gets to roll a lower die +4 for hit points (4 lower than normal die, so d10 becomes d6), with a minimum of a d4. So it works like this:

Original HP New HP
d4 d4
d6 d4+2
d8 d4+4
d10 d6+4
d12 d8+4


Everyone seems to like this system and CR's seem to remain the same, so I will keep on using it. Players still get to roll some of the HP so they get the random feel a bit, and it makes characters different even with the same HD, even if they will be a bit nearer now (this is a comparison to fixed HP systems).

Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

[Darklone]

I think I stole this from Old Ones campaign... I roll hidden behind the screen and the player rolls, then he tells me which roll he takes.

Allows me to throw some more fireballs at them

 

[Li Shenron]

Re: 4 + 4 system

Original HP New HP
d4 d4
d6 d4+2
d8 d4+4
d10 d6+4
d12 d8+4

I have thought before of a very similar system:

d4 -> d2+2
d6 -> d4+2
d8 -> d6+2
d10 -> d8+2
d12 -> d10+2

Everyone's average score is increased by 1, and everyone's minimum (before Constitution) is increased by 2. My main concern however was not about high-hp PCs but rather about low-hp PCs.