How do you RP marking?

[JasonZZ]

Seriously.

I understand how the marking mechanic works, and what conditions the mark is supposed to represent in an abstract fashion, but I can't for the life of me, figure out how to RP it.

See, my DM hasn't really figured out how to make combat really intense yet -- we've always had great story events, non-combat encounters and inter-PC roleplaying -- and I'm trying to figure out how to say "Kindly remember that your monsters should try to beat the living out of me, because I have 79 hit points that are asking to be eaten and marking you is the only way to ASK for it."

That is all.

It depends on the class, really.

Paladin: "Stop or my god will shoot!" Seriously, this one is pretty easy to explain. The paladin threatens his/her patron's wrath if the creature faces anyone other than the paladin. The damage is of course the god's wrath if the paladin is ignored. And the god in question expects the paladin to keep his end of the bargain (battle the marked foe, of course), so Divine Challenge expires if that requirement is not met.

Swordmage: Another easy one. A swordmage mark is a minor curse, which the swordmage can further "hook into" if defied.

Warden: The warden is a primal class, in touch with the spirits. The warden's mark is the warden calling upon the spirits to impede his or her foes (those immediately around him/her). The immediate interrupt attack is the swordmage getting a moment's warning so as to punish the would-be attacker; the reaction move is similar, but takes the warden a moment to instruct the spirit in question, so it doesn't interrupt the attack. Why does the mark only last so long? Lesser spirits are flighty beings, with little in the way of attention span.

Fighter: This seems to be the one that gives you trouble. Don't think of it as a taunt. Think of it as a maniac with an axe as big as your head, constantly swinging it at that same head. If your attention wavers for even a moment, the fighter is going to take that opportunity to remove body parts. Why does the mark expire if not maintained? That should be obvious. How can the fighter mark at range? That's a little more tricky, but I would assume it's still the threat that the fighter represents.

Hope this helps to demonstrate how marks can work in fluff, at least as I interpret them.

 

[Nifelhein]

I as the GM decide who the NPC or monster attack, not some measure of the aggressive behaviour induced by aggro generating abilities, this is not a computer game, anyone linking aggro and marking is more fitted to play WoW and forget tabletops.

Marking is an abstract game definition, contrary to how we tend to roleplay combat it is not a 1 swing per round attempt or a 1 taunt per round, we just abstract, D&D has had that abstraction since the beggining.

Marking is a series of taunts, fast blocking moves, bashes and so on, magical classes exploit an opening when an opponent decides to ignore those by dealing magical damage, or mitgating damage, fighters on the other hand make attacks or otherwise stop the target on their tracks, preventing move or attacks from being what they were supposed to.

WoW is a game where NPCs and monsters are controlled by a stupid AI, in my tabletop games you do not have that advantage, in the computer game you can have your aggro, in my games the NPCs and monsters can ignore the defendr whenever I want, but they pay a price for it, in WoW the boss cannot ignore the tank, he is bound by aggro charts and predefined patterns.

 

[ourchair]

I as the GM decide who the NPC or monster attack, not some measure of the aggressive behaviour induced by aggro generating abilities, this is not a computer game, anyone linking aggro and marking is more fitted to play WoW and forget tabletops.
[...]
WoW is a game where NPCs and monsters are controlled by a stupid AI, in my tabletop games you do not have that advantage, in the computer game you can have your aggro, in my games the NPCs and monsters can ignore the defendr whenever I want, but they pay a price for it, in WoW the boss cannot ignore the tank, he is bound by aggro charts and predefined patterns.

Yes.

I already established that I don't see this as a computer game or any other thing analogous to WoW. (I've never even played an MMO).

I'm looking at this more as a psychological teamplaying -- where the DM is also part of the team, one that helps the players come up with a story --- thing rather than some, oh my god my DM is so stupid he must obey my mark kind of thing.

I'm trying to come up with the perfect 'tell' much like how professional athletes can signal to one another to ensure that all monsters remember to actually weigh their options. (That zombies or low INT kobolds forget they are marked however, would be perfectly understandable.)

I wish people would stop bringing up the WoW and aggro thing, cause I feel condescended to when it's brought up.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Yes.

I already established that I don't see this as a computer game or any other thing analogous to WoW. (I've never even played an MMO).

I'm looking at this more as a psychological teamplaying -- where the DM is also part of the team, one that helps the players come up with a story --- thing rather than some, oh my god my DM is so stupid he must obey my mark kind of thing.

I'm trying to come up with the perfect 'tell' much like how professional athletes can signal to one another to ensure that all monsters remember to actually weigh their options. (That zombies or low INT kobolds forget they are marked however, would be perfectly understandable.)

I wish people would stop bringing up the WoW and aggro thing, cause I feel condescended to when it's brought up.

Leaving behind the the whole aggro thing, why do you believe the monsters should cooperate with you to make an interesting story that ends in thier defeat? The monsters want to tell a different story, one that ends with them killing you and taking your stuff.

 

[bardolph]

Responding to the OP, a mark is a "distraction," however you want to fluff it. The marker is being big, loud, distracting, dangerous-looking, or otherwise making a spectacle of himself. Maybe it's just a series of feints. Point is, he's interrupting your concentration, making it harder for you to aim at the target of your choice.

Most defender/soldier types also deliver some kind of reaction-based attack when the target ignores the mark, so the threat of this impending attack can also serve to "distract" the target, resulting in a -2 penalty to attack targets other than the marker.

I have no problem (fluff-wise) of marks overwriting each other. The latest distraction has pulled the attention of the target from the original marker.

In terms of enemy tactics, as a DM I usually try to make monsters fight as intelligently as possible. If they perceive a striker as the biggest threat, they'll willingly accept the -2 penalty and the secondary attack damage in order to take down the squishy. However, these tactics can easily pump the Defender up to the highest DPR character of the group.

 

[Pssthpok]

Multiple marks overriding each other does stick in the craw, but the encounter doesn't happen, as mentioned before, in a vacuum. There should be some sort of literal dynamic at the table explaining how the rules are becoming "the reality" of the game.

Still, that sounds very Rule #0 Fallacy to me, where if the DM can somehow rationalize or houserule a fuzzy rule, it doesn't need fixing.

If Fighter Gomez marks the Titan, he's being a badass Fighter (as so clearly defined earlier in the thread) and thereby fulfilling his role. So, Gomez and the Titan go toe-to-toe for a few rounds until Paladin Guillermo gets done mopping up the Titan's goons. When Guillermo joins the fray, as a rules-to-story dynamic, the Titan should (by all rights and reason) be susceptible to "double marks". For one thing, the Titan is now outnumbered and, for another, he just saw his goons get dusted. But when Guillermo issues the challenge, the Titan suddenly forgets about Gomez?

It's kinda corner-casey, but it would happen, and the DM would be left in the cold trying to explain why Gomez just ain't so badass anymore?

 

[bardolph]

But when Guillermo issues the challenge, the Titan suddenly forgets about Gomez?

It's kinda corner-casey, but it would happen, and the DM would be left in the cold trying to explain why Gomez just ain't so badass anymore?

The DM doesn't have to explain non-events. If the Titan draws Divine Challenge damage while marked by the Paladin, the DM can describe the holy rebuke. If the Titan draws a Combat Superiority attack while marked by the fighter, the DM can describe such an attack.

Nowhere is the thread of story interrupted in either case. The DM doesn't need to take extra time to explain why someone doesn't do something at a particular moment.

 

[Gimby]

Multiple marks overriding each other does stick in the craw, but the encounter doesn't happen, as mentioned before, in a vacuum. There should be some sort of literal dynamic at the table explaining how the rules are becoming "the reality" of the game.

Still, that sounds very Rule #0 Fallacy to me, where if the DM can somehow rationalize or houserule a fuzzy rule, it doesn't need fixing.

If Fighter Gomez marks the Titan, he's being a badass Fighter (as so clearly defined earlier in the thread) and thereby fulfilling his role. So, Gomez and the Titan go toe-to-toe for a few rounds until Paladin Guillermo gets done mopping up the Titan's goons. When Guillermo joins the fray, as a rules-to-story dynamic, the Titan should (by all rights and reason) be susceptible to "double marks". For one thing, the Titan is now outnumbered and, for another, he just saw his goons get dusted. But when Guillermo issues the challenge, the Titan suddenly forgets about Gomez?

It's kinda corner-casey, but it would happen, and the DM would be left in the cold trying to explain why Gomez just ain't so badass anymore?

Yeah, while it is kind of corner-casey its a valid concern - I don't really see it as a rule 0 issue as mechanically its working fine (if a little ugly, and IIRC this was brought in late in development as a response to players building all-defender parties), it just requires a little more in descriptive chops than usual.

How about something like:

"Locked in mortal combat, the Titan and Gomez circle, Gomez's powerful footwork and threatening blade keeping the Titan on the defensive.

Across the battlefield, the Titan's minions finally fall before Guillermo's wrath, and he turns to the Titan and recites the sacred words of challenge!

Gomez is rocked back on his heels momentarially, dazzled by the force of the challenge, allowing the Titan a second to escape onto Guillermo's waiting blade.

'Not today, you gloryhound!' Gomez cries as he leaps again at the Titan, disrupting Guillermo's concentration -and the fight continues"

Or something a little less trite than that. The point to remember is the mark is only overwritten temporarily, Gomez can reapply his at will. Overwriting marks represents the players interfering with each other, so interpret that into the fiction as the characters interrupting each other's fighting styles.

 

[bardolph]

The point to remember is the mark is only overwritten temporarily, Gomez can reapply his at will. Overwriting marks represents the players interfering with each other, so interpret that into the fiction as the characters interrupting each other's fighting styles.

So the defenders are hogging each other's spotlight, or stealing each other's thunder.

Works for me.

 

[LostSoul]

Multiple marks overriding each other does stick in the craw, but the encounter doesn't happen, as mentioned before, in a vacuum. There should be some sort of literal dynamic at the table explaining how the rules are becoming "the reality" of the game.

There generally isn't because no one is ever required to pay attention to anything except the numbers on the sheets and the squares on the grid. If the DM adjudicates actions in a free-form style that's cool, but the culture of 4E frowns on it and the powers draw attention away from it.

It's a pity since the system is good at handling such things.