How do you run a Dungeon as a Skill Challenge?

[tallyrand]

I have seen several posts talking about it, but no in depth explanations: Just what is involved in running a large dungeon as a skill challenge rather than mapping out the whole darn thing? I could immagine trying to DM the Fellowship through the Mines of Mordor, them getting lost and leveling up a half dozen times before finding their way out, or instead using an extended skill challenge to handle it much more cinematically. I can see the advantages of it...successes and failures leading to keyed encounters and rooms, and so on. But I imagine that there is a kind of minimum size to the area to explore before this becomes a viable method.

What is your experience with this, tips, tricks, pitfalls, and so on?

 

[Mistwell]

I think you can get a feel for how it is done if you read through Piratecat's recent post about a skill challenge he ran. I'll copy the pertinent parts below, and I think it's basically 3-4 rooms involved:

HOW IT PLAYED OUT FROM THE PLAYER'S PERSPECTIVE

Plot summary:

We had ended the previous game in the Bubbling Fens, one-time gathering place of lizard man forces, and rumored home-base of our enemies Xiras and Aline. Now we cautiously entered the only permanent structure – a large wooden hut up on stilts.

Its interior was way creepy....

Beneath the rich carpet on the floor we found a magic circle inscribed with draconic runes. The university-educated Doc read them to us – the wording indicated that we needed an (un)holy symbol of Sklar (the evil Lizard Man god) to open the portal. (It also indicated that non-Sklar-worshippers might be detained in some way…. Hmmm.) The (un)holy symbol wasn’t hard to come by, as Sklar’s symbol is a wet feather from a drowned duck.

Caldwell plucked one, soaked it with water from his water-skin, and dropped it onto the circle. The wooden floor warbled and was replaced by a staircase going down into the darkness. (Which was odd, since the hut was on stilts – we should have been looking down at the swamp beneath the hut.) Before anyone could say “check for traps,” Toiva descended. She quickly vanished into the shadows, and wouldn’t answer our calls, so we charged down after her.

Each member of the party found themselves in a tiny isolated prison made from tall weeds. We could hear each other, indicating that our individual prisons were near each other. More disturbing, the air felt wrong – with each breath, we had the sensation that our lungs were about to fill with water. And most disturbing, Caldwell and Toiva, who are more devout that the rest of us in their worship of non-Sklar deities, had taken on the visual appearance of waterlogged cadavers.

Strontium discovered that, beneath the mud of its prison, its perimeter was ringed with runes similar to those around the portal entrance in the hut. After it shouted its discovery, Caldwell, who still had his feather, used it on the runes of his own cell to free himself, and then did the same for the others. We were in a long, dark hallway that contained many of these little weedy prisons. In response to our shouts (in case there were others so trapped), we heard a groaning noise from the end of the hallway. We moved to investigate.

Beyond the prison-hall was a ritual chamber with three magic circles on the floor. One contained a small pile of scrolls, one contained various dragon parts (including the head)... and one contained the feared Dragonborn warrior Xiras, who we had thought was leading the lizard man armies against Floodford.

Xiras, looking horribly emaciated, demanded food. (He licked his lips disturbingly while staring at our halfling companion Yiddin. No, you can’t eat our combat medic!) We were wary of him, given his reputation. Could this be a trap? He claimed that his life-force was being drained and fed to his supposed consort, Aline.

Before freeing him, we scuffed out the circles containing the scrolls and dragon parts. The scrolls went up in flames, and the dragon bits swirled around a bit, but nothing else happened. We searched the rest of the room and found a table in a small alcove, on which rested a number of sapphires and a fancy lidded cup. Cobalt pocketed the gems and flipped the cup open to see what was inside.

Smoke started to stream out of the cup, forming into the massive shadowy form of The Awakening Tide of Sklar, some kind of mighty avatar of the evil swamp god. Oops! It was immediately evident that this towering semi-divine monstrosity was not something we could fight, and that our immediate priorities were a) fleeing with our lives, and b) making sure the Tide of Sklar did not escape to trouble the surface world.

So, we ran. The Tide of Sklar moved slowly but inexorably toward the exit, while slowing us down with rapidly-forming barriers of sharp weeds, as well by tangling us up in seaweed-like tentacles. We shoved through the weeds with brute force, stopping when necessary to free anyone who was entangled. We successfully escaped back up the stairs, and even managed to grab the pathetic Xiras on the way out.

But, when we reached the “safety” of the hut and sealed the portal, the Tide of Sklar started to force its tendrils through the cracks around the opening! We still needed to corrupt the ancient runes inscribed around the portal, and that took some tricky knowledge of nature and the arcane. Some of us concentrated on slashing the tentacles as they thrashed about, while others worked with Yiddin and Strontium to figure out how to seal the portal for good.

We made it, but just barely.

- Skills used this game: Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, History, Insight, Nature, Perception, Religion

HOW IT LOOKED FROM THE DM'S PERSPECTIVE

Here are the two skill challenges I used once someone had bumped the silver cup.
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Skill Challenge: Flee the Awakening Tide of Sklar – 12 successes before 3 failures

Each round, the Tide of Sklar’s essence attacks you as it races for the doorway to your world. If you are hit, you will take damage and possibly be entangled. Entangled characters must be released using one of the Release Skills before the challenge can be beaten. Releasing a character, or using a secondary skill, does not count as a success toward the challenge.

If the you win, you reach the portal before the Tide of Sklar does.
If you lose, the Tide of Sklar escapes into the mortal world.

All skill checks are standard actions.

Primary skills:
Acrobatics - DC 10 (push aside an encroaching curtain of weeds.)
Athletics - DC 10 (rip apart an encroaching curtain of weeds.)
Dungeoneering - DC 15 (slam shut a barrier to block progress. Only usable once, counts as two successes.)
Endurance – DC 10 (keep running!)
Nature – DC 10 (guess where the weeds are about to grow, and avoid that spot.)
Religion – DC 10 or DC 15 (utter a counter-prayer to Demis to repel and slow the essence of the Tide. The lower DC applies to people who actively worship Demis.)
Any melee attack – DC 15 (rip open a growing wall of weeds.)

Release skills:
Athletics – DC 15 (pulls person free.)
Heal – DC 10 (unwind victim from abrasive weeds with minimum damage.)
Religion – DC 15 (make counter-prayer to Demis that releases a victim.)
Any push, pull, or slide power – DC 15

Secondary skills:
Intimidate – DC 15 (draws a second attack that would have occurred to an ally next turn.)
Perception – DC 10 (give an ally +2 on any Primary skill check. Max of two people can aid an ally on any one check.)
Stealth – DC 15 (do not draw an attack next turn.)
Aid another – DC 10 (give an ally +2 on the same skill’s check.)

--

Weed attack: +5 vs Reflex, 1d10+3 damage and possibly immobilized

1. Most people hit by the weeds had a 30% chance to be immobilized (a 1-3 on a d10.) The characters marked by Sklar - anyone with a divine power source and anyone who venerated Demis - had a 70% chance.

2. The DCs are straight from the DMG for easy, medium and hard skill checks for 1st-3rd lvl PCs.

--------------------------------------------


Skill challenge: Sealing the Portal - 4 successes before 3 failures

You are back in the hut, having reached the portal through which the Tide of Sklar can reenter the world. You must seal the portal to keep it out. To do this, one or more people must destroy the portal's runes while the rest of the group keeps those practitioners safe from the Tide's onslaught.

At the beginning of each round, six weed minions sprout around the edge of the trapdoor. At the end of each round, any remaining weeds attack PCs who made Primary skill checks that round. Destroyed weeds can not attack.

If you win, you seal the Tide of Sklar back within its prison.
If you lose, the Tide of Sklar escapes into the mortal world.

All skill checks are standard actions.

Primary skills:

Arcana - DC 20 (destroy the portal's magical runes.)
Religion - DC 20 (destroy the portal's magical runes.)

Secondary skills:

Aid another: DC 10 (gives another PC +2 on that skill check, any number of PCs can assist)
Athletics, Acrobatics or Intimidate: DC 15. (The targeted tendril of Sklar attacks you instead of an ally.)
Attack the tendrils of Sklar: AC 15, Fort 15, Ref 15, Will 15. You can use your normal combat powers for this. A successful hit destroys a tendril.

Tendril attack: +10 vs Reflex, 1d10+3 damage

POST-CHALLENGE ADVICE

As evidenced by the fact that the first challenge was completed with no failures (albeit with two PCs bloodied), the easy skill checks were too easy. Several PCs could auto-make them each round. I should have raised those to medium or at least made the easiest ones a little bit harder (DC 10 --> DC 12.) Next time I do this I'm likely to describe them as "easy," "moderate," etc. instead of giving actual numbers.

The second skill challenge was fantastic. Real tension and difficult choices, including some mandatory combat. Aid the wizard? Attack the weeds? The fact that the six weeds a round were cumulative -- ignore them and you'd have 12 next round, all attacking the same person! -- meant that the group had to dedicate some people to handle them. One of Stron's skill checks missed by 1, meaning that one more person aiding would have made it succeed. It was a very near thing, and it brought out superb teamwork in the players. I leveled them to 4th level at the end of the game; they deserved it.

One secret to skill challenges is to just hand them out a sheet detailing all of it, and give the players a chance to tackle the problem however they see best; this seems to work better than my previous slapdash approach. The second is to be systematic about going around the table. Finally, I think you should never give the PCs a skill challenge that you can't afford to let them lose. Something awful would have happened if they had lost, but it was fun-for-the-game awful (as opposed to kills-all-the-PCs awful.) I was prepared no matter what happened.

[Edit - Thanks for the clean-up PC]

 

[RangerWickett]

I like the idea of presenting a large exploration cinematically instead of grinding through room after room of mapping and descriptions, but I don't like the idea of specifically stating that something is a skill challenge. Just use the skill challenge rules as a guideline for framing your narrative, and just describe what happens, calling for checks when appropriate and keeping track of the wins (and losses, if you're not using Stalker0's variant system) in your head.

When they succeed, work it into your narrative by having them reach a new area or discover treasure or a clue. When they fail, have bad stuff happen to them. Spelling it out can ruin the mystique and grandeur of adventuring.

I guess if you're going for tension, spelling it out might work so they know how good or bad things are, but in that case the consequences of failure aren't tied closely enough to other mechanical aspects of the game, in my opinion. Failing in combat you understand because when you run out of HP, you die. Failing a single skill challenge doesn't carry the same doom.

I dunno, maybe run it as 5 connected simultaneous skill challenges, and if they fail them all, they die? The tomb collapses and they're trapped? The ancient evil gets out. Even then, I'm less comfortable being so rules-oriented.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

I have seen several posts talking about it, but no in depth explanations: Just what is involved in running a large dungeon as a skill challenge rather than mapping out the whole darn thing? I could immagine trying to DM the Fellowship through the Mines of Mordor, them getting lost and leveling up a half dozen times before finding their way out, or instead using an extended skill challenge to handle it much more cinematically. I can see the advantages of it...successes and failures leading to keyed encounters and rooms, and so on. But I imagine that there is a kind of minimum size to the area to explore before this becomes a viable method.

What is your experience with this, tips, tricks, pitfalls, and so on?

I turned the maze in the 1st Ed module I5, Pharoah, into a skill challenge, and I can't wait to run it.

The quick rundown is this: once they get a few successes, they start to figure out how to track their progress through the maze. Then they run into a sphinx in one room who, if they play their cards right, can give them a couple of clues on how to get out. Then, successes get them to rooms where they can compare the ceilings to look for secret passages there (perception checks or "art" checks, history, religion or other tangentially relevant skills). Failures get them to similar rooms with traps or monsters. Once the PCs get enough successes in the trap door rooms, they figure out how to identify the trap doors and they can move out of the maze. Alternatively, once the PCs have hit enough failures to get to every trap and monster in the maze, they find a poorly concealed trap door and they can move out of the maze.

Success: they figure out how to move through the maze and identify the secret doors out of the maze. Failure: they find one way through the maze, but they have to negotiate traps the entire time and they don't figure out how to access the secret doors should they end up in the maze again.

Basically, what you have to do is figure out the relevant skills that the PCs can use to get through the dungeon and where they can use those skills.

Break it up into sections: once the PCs have x successes, they move into a new section of the dungeon. In each section, the relevant skills thay can use to gain successes changes. In each section, every time they accrue a failure or two they run afoul of a trap or run into a room full of monsters that is relevant to that section.

The key is to make successes and failures noticable. When the PCs get a few successes, they see their progress. When PCs get failures, they see that they are getting into trouble. In the end, they have to get through, but their overall success determines how well they get through.

You may want to break up different parts of the dungeon into their own mini skill challenges (even single rolls!) rather than have larger skill challenges. It depends on how you think the flow of the dungeon will go.

Possible failure penalties for going through a dungeon: PCs get out, but ingured/blistered/tired/hungry--everyone loses healing surges; PCs get out, but fall through a chute or through water--lose mundane items/gold; PCs get out, but in a poor tactical situation rather than a good tactical situation; PCs get out, but fail to find all the treasure they could.

 

[Treebore]

I also think the skill challenge in the last D&D World Game Day is a good starting example you could build off of.

 

[Bumbles]

I'd think of it as a mix between Jeopardy and Double Dare. Or the Riddler's maze in that episode of Batman:TAS meets that dungeon in the D&D movie. Maybe with a little bit of Indiana Jones for good measure.