Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6837569" data-attributes="member: 42582">It's not as if I have a secret agenda here - there's an approach to "roleplaying" that I really don't enjoy, but that I think has enjoyed a wide degree of mainstream endorsement and promotion within the hobby. Within the context of D&D, I regard AD&D 2nd ed as the high watermark for that endorsement and promotion.On this approach to "roleplaying", character action declaration is largely irrelevant (except perhaps in combat), because the resolution mechanics are so weak that most outcomes are determined by GM stipulation. And the dynamics of the narrative - what event follows what, leading from a start (perhaps a meeting in a tavern, or all the PCs walking down the street and stumbling upon an assault upon a stranger) to an end (the princess is rescued, the town is saved, or whatever) - are often largely settled in advance by the GM's adventure prep. What the players provide is simply the characterisation and colour of their PCs.You can see this approach reflected in the AD&D 2nd ed PHB, where we get the example of Rath, who can be an excellent PC to play because the player provides colour and characterisation even though his stats are so low that - by the rules of AD&D as published - the player has relatively little chance of actually impacting the fiction via action declaration. (There is an almost contradictory tone to the whole discussion of PC building in this book, as - for instance - we are told that stats don't matter while also being told that a character with 18/00 STR who can therefore press slightly more than the then-current world record is "heroic".)I think action declaration is key.But whether or not action declaration demonstrates values will depend upon the framework within which the GM is (i) setting the scene for action declarations, and (ii) adjudicating them.In Moldvay Basic, for instance, of similar Gygaxian dungeon-crawlilng, action declaration isn't about values at all. The game starts from the premise that what the PCs value is exploring dungeons and extracting loot. (There is scope for a superficial story overlay - "We're also in the dungeon to rescue the prisoners" - but it's obviously pretty superficial. The real motivation is collecting gold for XP while not getting killed in the (hyper-dangerous at low levels) combat.)In this sort of game, then, "playing your role" is about using the resources the game permits you to use, given the character you are playing (eg you are playing a fighter, not a MU, and so your role permits you to use physical prowess rather than magic and (perhaps) learning to overcome the challenges of the game). Your "role" - dictated, as Gygax tells us in his PHB, primarily by choice of class - is about a suite of player resources that have in-fiction as well as at-the-table meaning. And playing that role is using those resources, which requires in-fiction as well as at-the-table moves.There are other systems and GMing approaches which do permit action declaration to display values or commitments. Some of them were discussed in the recent "fail forward" thread.</blockquote>

Verification