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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6838903" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>This is all interesting for those who aren't familiar the history of stat bonuses over early editions of D&D (I'm not one of those people.)</p><p></p><p>But I don't think it's at odds with what I'm saying.</p><p></p><p>In AD&D - both editions - stats and stat bonuses matter to action resolution: via combat mods, via saving throw mods, via hit points, via getting low-level thief skills to percentages where there is a real chance of success, via "roll under on d20" mechanics, etc. Gygax wasn't just making stuff up when he talked about the importance of stats in his PHB and DMG.</p><p></p><p>A character with no good stats, in these systems, is apt to be blown about by the winds of fortune - and as playstyles change over time, the player becomes increasingly dependent upon the GM extending fortune to him/her.</p><p></p><p>At least in D&D, the answer to this question is that it reinforces role differentiation. A player whose character is weak in one respect but not in another has a reason to try to come at the fiction, or to change the fiction, such that weaknesses are not exposed and strengths can be brought to bear.</p><p></p><p>This isn't possible for a player whose character has no notable strengths. But that just brings us back to Gygax's point about the importance of some good stats for an effective AD&D PC.</p><p></p><p>Yes. That is how I used the term.</p><p></p><p>I can't comment on the modules that have been published for 5e, as I don't own them and haven't read them.</p><p></p><p>But I don't agree that there is, in general, any negative correlation between the importance of mechanical systems of resolution and the importance of player input. For instance, in a system of resolution based around "intent and task", even if the upshot of resolution is failure, the player's input is key to the resulting change in the fiction. (This was discussed at some length in the recent "fail forward" thread on the General board.)</p><p></p><p>That provides a further illustration of why I think action declarations are key to roleplaying, and of why I personally find 2nd ed AD&D - with its complete disregard for action declaration, and the complete mismatch between its basically Gygaxian mechanics and its obviously non-Gygaxian aspirations - to be a nadir rather than a zenith for "good roleplaying".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6838903, member: 42582"] This is all interesting for those who aren't familiar the history of stat bonuses over early editions of D&D (I'm not one of those people.) But I don't think it's at odds with what I'm saying. In AD&D - both editions - stats and stat bonuses matter to action resolution: via combat mods, via saving throw mods, via hit points, via getting low-level thief skills to percentages where there is a real chance of success, via "roll under on d20" mechanics, etc. Gygax wasn't just making stuff up when he talked about the importance of stats in his PHB and DMG. A character with no good stats, in these systems, is apt to be blown about by the winds of fortune - and as playstyles change over time, the player becomes increasingly dependent upon the GM extending fortune to him/her. At least in D&D, the answer to this question is that it reinforces role differentiation. A player whose character is weak in one respect but not in another has a reason to try to come at the fiction, or to change the fiction, such that weaknesses are not exposed and strengths can be brought to bear. This isn't possible for a player whose character has no notable strengths. But that just brings us back to Gygax's point about the importance of some good stats for an effective AD&D PC. Yes. That is how I used the term. I can't comment on the modules that have been published for 5e, as I don't own them and haven't read them. But I don't agree that there is, in general, any negative correlation between the importance of mechanical systems of resolution and the importance of player input. For instance, in a system of resolution based around "intent and task", even if the upshot of resolution is failure, the player's input is key to the resulting change in the fiction. (This was discussed at some length in the recent "fail forward" thread on the General board.) That provides a further illustration of why I think action declarations are key to roleplaying, and of why I personally find 2nd ed AD&D - with its complete disregard for action declaration, and the complete mismatch between its basically Gygaxian mechanics and its obviously non-Gygaxian aspirations - to be a nadir rather than a zenith for "good roleplaying". [/QUOTE]
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