how does a druid... work?

[evilbob]

A friend of mine is rolling up a level 10 druid, and I've never played one before... So, I have a general question for anyone who's ever played or run or seen a druid: how does wildshaping work? It seems dredfully unclear, especially since the description of the ability is contained in 3 places (wildshape, polymorph self, and alter self), some of which overwrite the others.

More specifically, I understand that you exchange your physical qualities for theirs, but you keep your own attack bonus? Does that mean you get your own number of attacks or theirs? And how do hit points work - do you take the animal/creature's hit die / hit points or do you use your own level for hit die and use the animal/creature's hit die TYPE or how in the world does that work? For example, if you're a level 10 druid and you become a dire lion, do you get 8 hit die's worth of HP or 10? And do you get 3 attacks (lion's) or 2 (yours)?

Also, you gain "extrodinary special attacks" - and if you take levels in the Complete Adventurer's Master of Many forms, you get "extrodinary special qualities" - and do either of these include feats or skill points that the creature has?

What about equipment? Do enhancement bonuses follow your new shape or is your equipment just absorbed and useless and that's it? And what is typically considered "absorbed" - does that include necklaces or rings or whatever? (I know there's an armor type and weapon type in Complete Adventurer that allows you to spend wildshapes to transform an armor along with you or shape a weapon, but aside from that...) If everything you're wearing always gets absorbed, then what equipment does a druid ever need? What is worth purchasing at all?

Thanks in advance for help with this amazingly confusing basic class...

 

[Nail]

#1) Wow, is it a bad idea to start with a mid-level PC in this class! Try something else. Please.

#2) Yoowsa! So many questions! See #1. Also see the "Rules of the Game" articles, posted on the WotC web site.

you keep your own attack bonus?

You retain your BAB, but add the animal's Str bonus.

Does that mean you get your own number of attacks or theirs?

Natural attacks are differnet than manufactured weapon attacks. If you are unclear on this - understandable - then, ouch....time for another thread.

And how do hit points work...

Your hp, but with the animal's Con bonus. See the erratta, RotG, etc.

And do you get 3 attacks (lion's) or 2 (yours)?

You get the lion's attack routine, with your BAB and it's Str, plus whatever magic bonuses you can manage.

...and do either of these include feats or skill points that the creature has?

Bonus feats only, IIRC.

Do enhancement bonuses follow your new shape or is your equipment just absorbed and useless and that's it?

Many things can be worn by the animal form, and so are not absorbed. Those that can't be worn, are absorbed and useless.

What is worth purchasing at all?

An animated shield, or wild armor. There are other, cheesier, items too.

 

[Shayuri]

Wildshaping Made Easy (Kind of)
-------------------------------

When you wildshape, the following adjustments are made.

WHAT YOU GET
1) You take on the physical appearance of the animal desired. Your creature type also becomes Animal, replacing whatever it was before.

2) You gain the movement speed and mode of the animal.

3) Your size changes to match the animal's (which impacts AC, to hit, etc).

4) You gain any natural armor bonus the animal has.

5) Your PHYSICAL attributes change to match the animal's. This CAN result in a reduction, if you have a naturally high physical attribute. If your Constitution changes, adjust your hit points to reflect this change (ie - if Con goes up, add hit points. If it goes down, reduce.)

6) You gain the physical attacks of the animal. This includes any claws, bites, gores, etc listed under the Attack entry of its stat block. You ALSO gain any Special Attacks that are lsited, such as Constriction, Improved Grapple, and so on. Normally you'd be limited to only Ex Special Attacks, but animals by definition only have Ex abilities...so you have it easy. You do NOT gain ANY powers listed under Special Qualities.

7) You gain any racial feats and skill bonuses that are listed. Note that RACIAL feats doesn't mean "any feat the animal has." The feat must be listed as a racial bonus feat in order to be conveyed by Wildshape.

8) You gain the ability to communicate with the animal type you've changed into, as if using Speak with Animals.

WHAT YOU LOSE
1) You lose your old creature type for the duration.

2) You lose any racial bonuses and benefits you may have had. This includes attribute bonuses and penalties, skill bonuses, and sometimes spell-like abilities. In general anything listed under Racial Abilities is given up, replaced by the abilities of the animal form.

3) You lose your normal physical attributes; they change to match the animal.

4) You lose the benefit of any item the animal could not logically accomodate. GM's are encouraged to be flexible (by Andy Collins at least), but common sense examples of items that wouldn't make the change to most animals includes: Gloves or gauntlets (unless the animal has opposable thumbs like an ape or monkey), Boots, Robes and/or Armor (though look at the Wild enhancement quality for armor), anr Rings. Other items may fall into this category as well...and often times you may not WISH for a great deal of magic items to follow your form, since an animal bedecked in a cloak, with an amulet and headgear will not be mistakeable as anything other than what it is.

WHAT STAYS THE SAME
1) You retain any class features that the animal's form could accomodate. This includes spellcasting, if you have the Natural Spellcasting feat, or are using Silent and Still spell feats to overcome the lack of voice and hands.

2) You retain your mental attributes, possibly modified to reflect loss of magic items.

3) You retain the use of any Su abilities that the new form can accomodate (normally useful for saying a dragon in human shape can still breathe fire...but still worth noting).

4) You retain any feats and skills you possess...possibly modified by changes to your physical attributes. Feats that you no longer possess the prereqs for are rendered inert (unusuable) for the duration. Skills that require certain body parts to use (ie - Diplomacy requires speech, Disable Device requires hands) may become unusuable as well.

5) You retain your native BAB and save bonuses, though your final bonuses may change due to new physical attributes.

...

I -think- that's it. If I missed something, I'm sure people will let us know.

Hope it helped.

 

[Nail]

Lemme post this more clearly: When you wildshape, you can think of it as a sort of template. As such, you'd never get "the creature's" Hit Dice, hit points, BAB, saves, skill points, feats, etc.

You get things like Str, Dex, Con, natural armor, move, size, type of attacks (like claw/claw/bite/etc), and a few extraordinary abilities.

Is that clearer?

BTW: a new player in our game started a Druid at 14th level. It was an _extremely_ bad choice, IMHO. I tried to (politely) dissuade her, but...the "die was cast", so to speak.

 

[evilbob]

Aside: My friend is not rolling up a druid to PLAY, but to basically resolve these issues that we've encountered. I also dislike starting at high levels for actual campaigns.


Shayuri:

Thanks for that very descriptive reply! Let me make sure I understand then...

When wildshaping, you leave your HP alone but modify it according to your new Con. You use the new creature's attack routines, but modifiy their BAB according to your own (and new Str as well).

So... Is there any reason a druid - at leats, one focused on wildshaping - would put her attribute points into any physical trait? Would it behouve her at all to basically dump her 3 worst attributes into physical traits at character creation (other than levels 1-4 of being a druid)? Also, why would a druid purchase or use any item EXCEPT a cloak, necklace, or headgear? I mean, if all other items are worthless as soon as she shifts, why bother even getting them?

Also, does anyone have a good list of items they would typically allow druids to retain? I mean, a necklace - to me - really even seems iffy, especially if a druid were turning into a creature that's a different size than her natural form (like a raven or an elephant). Other thoughts?

Thanks again, and any more clarifications are appreciated...

 

[Terwox]

Druids dumpstatting the physical stats, if they're planning on shifting a lot, is a commonly quoted powergaming tactic.

 

[Shayuri]

Well, even for a druid that focuses on wildshaping can't be wildshaped forever. The duration may allow it, but there are practical considerations. Remember that while wildshaped, you -cannot- speak Common. This means, unless someone in the party can and will use Speak with Animals or Telepathy to interpret for you, you can't talk to your party.

And of course, when you're buying and selling, or hanging out in inns or whatever it is you adventurers do nowadays...you'll similarly probably not want to be a Dire Bear. Miltias frown on that.

My advice is not to dumpstat physical stats too egregiously. Your GM -will- catch you out of animal form eventually. Either you'll use up your daily allottment, or he'll drag an antimagic field in, but it WILL happen. Be prepared.

Similarly, use whatever items are best for you...but you're correct to try to -focus- on items that will benefit you in both natural and wild forms. Here's some ideas I use with my druid.

1) Get Craft Wondrous Item. Use it to make an amulet or necklace of Wisdom that also has a decent AC bonus associated with it. Your main weakness as an animal is lack of AC. This will help. Almost all animals can wear necklaces.

2) Try to make/acquire gear that can be used in charges per day, rather than continuously. This is because if you have a belt that notches your Strength up, it'll go away when you wildshape and take it's bonus with it. But if you have a belt that casts Bull's Strength ON you 3/day...then when you wildshape, the strength bonus is still there! That's because an item that casts a spell on you does it once, and then the effect has a duration that's no longer contingent on actually wearing the belt. It's no different from you casting the spell on yourself, except it doesn't require a precious, precious slot.

3) Don't forget Ioun Stones! ANYTHING can use a little rock tumbling around its head.

 

[Prism]

I don't want to derail your thread but there are two issues it would be good to ask your DM about that relate to wildshape

First, find out what the DM rules on magical items being usable in different forms - the two main factors being what happens if you lose certain limbs e.g a snake, and what happens if the druid takes a larger or smaller form

Also, there are two ways you could rule hit point changes. One that hit points stay the same and the other that hit points are adjusted by the new CON bonus, either up or down

 

[Nail]

Again: your questions are commonly asked.....and so there are WotC articles that try to cover them. (These same articles may have errors or significant omissions. Sigh.)

As a starting point, why don't you try the RotG articles? Find them here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040511a

 

[Moon-Lancer]

also bracers do not change in wildshape form. i know this becuse the Celestial Charger has some equiped. mm1

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/unicorn.htm#celestialCharger