How does Cooperative Spell Work?

[Cheiromancer]

When you cast the "same" spell, does this mean a spell with the same name: you cast fireball, and I cast fireball.

OR

Does it mean that you and I cast just one spell: fireball?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Cooperative Spell [Metamagic]
You can cast spells to greater effect in conjunction with the same spell cast by another.

Prerequisites: Any other metamagic feat.

Benefit: You and another spellcaster with the Cooperative Spell feat can simultaneously cast the same spell (at the same time in the round). You must be adjacent to one another when casting cooperatively. Add +2 to the save DC against cooperatively cast spells and +1 to caster level checks to beat the target's spell resistance (if any). Use the base DC and level check of the better caster. A cooperative spell uses up a spell slot of the same level as the spell's actual level.

Special: For each additional caster with this feat casting the same cooperative spell simultaneously, the spell's save DC and caster level check both increase by +1. When more than two spellcasters cooperatively cast a spell, each must be adjacent to at least two other casters.

For example, four spellcasters (two wizards and two sorcerers) standing in a circle all possess Cooperative Spell. Three of them ready an action to cast fireball when the member with the lowest initiative takes her action, also casting fireball. The base DC of the Reflex save is equal to the highest individual save DC among the cooperative casters, as determined by their relevant ability scores or other feats (such as Spell Focus), special abilities, or items. in this case, one wizard has Intelligence 18, which ties with a sorcerer's Charisma 18, so the base DC is 17 (10+3 for the spell's level +4 for the ability score modifier). The final save DC of the cooperatively cast fireball is 17+2+1+1 or 21. Whoever has the highest caster level determines the base caster check, which gains a +4 modifier.

[edited typo]

 

[Cheiromancer]

If you answered "one spell is cast by two casters", tell me this:

If the spell cast is a charm person, which of the casters becomes the target's friend?

If the spell is a polymorph other, who decides who the target is, and what the target's new shape will be?

If your answer is "the highest level caster," what do you do in the case of a tie? Ability scores? The casters have the same ability scores (not too improbable, with point buy).

If the feat affects only the spell cast by the highest level caster, why does the feat only say "the spell," which in every other metamagic feat description refers to the spell cast by the one using the feat?

 

[Irda Ranger]

Clearly, no matter what the spell, someone has to make decisions. Even in the Fireball example above, whose finger would do the pointing? Who decides the range?

How leadership within the circle is not really specified in the feat. The only suggestion is that the base DC is determined by the highest DC caster. Is this the leader? Or is the highest-level caster the leader? Can they choose the leader each time?

In an example where choosing the leader, or to make up a term, the "caster of effect", maybe three spellcasters are cooperating, but only one of them as the right tactical position to use the spell most effectively. Maybe the spellcasters "adjacent" to the "caster of effect" have taken 100% cover, while the caster of effect must reduce his cover to at least 50% to get the spell off.

In the next round a different caster may have a better position and they switch.

As DM it would be a toss up. It would either be the one with the highest relevant stat (hence the highest DC) or the circle can choose somehow. Whoever is "in control" of the circle would decide spell effects such as range and target. Any spell effects that involve the caster, such as Charm Person would effect the caster in control.

But that's just a DM's interpretation. There's really nothing in the rules I can see that specifies it.

 

[Cheiromancer]

If you follow interpretation #1 (which, so far, only I have voted for), you don't have to make up rules about who the controller of the spell is:

You cast a fireball, I cast a fireball. At the same time, and we both have cooperative spell.

Yours goes where you target it, and mine goes where I target it.

Both with save DC's based on whichever of us is best, and with a bonus to boot.

Easy. Simple. And, IMHO, how the feat is supposed to work.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

My opinion is 2 spells are cast, only one spell takes effect. the other spell is speant on just boosting the DC/caster level.

IOW how this feat works is realy poorly. It just sucks, sucks, sucks.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I think the feat is better as a DM tool than a player feat. First, it is required to be a mage of the arcane order or a guild wizard (IIRC). So it's a cost for a prestige class.

Next, the feat can be *incredibly* powerful when used by a group of spellcasters. Have a tough foe you can't take down? Have a few casters cast a save or die spell, at the same time using the feat. +2 DC per caster is pretty decent, +1 to defeat SR is also not bad, given the spell needs to succeed.

So it's not a bad DM device, but for the style of play for D&D, it rarely has any benefits for players.

 

[Archer]

I have to say the first interpretation must be the correct one. The 2nd makes the feat very poor. Cooperative spell is used by a multiclass caster to juice up his otherwise worthless spells if a pure caster is willing to take this feat and cast the same spells at the same time.

Everyone knows a pure caster is the only kind of caster that can penetrate SR and have a DC that enemies fail on numbers higher than a 1. This feat makes an impure caster more feasible although it has a lot of conditions. The boost to the pure caster's spell gives him some incentive to take this feat and cooperate though not a very large one. At epic levels this feat would be much more significant.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I think a close reading of the example in the feat description makes it clear that only one spell is being cast. It's just pumped up by the cooperative efforts of two or more spellcasters.

For example, four spellcasters (two wizards and two sorcerers) standing in a circle all possess Cooperative Spell. Three of them ready an action to cast fireball when the member with the lowest initiative takes her action, also casting fireball.

This part of the example just clarifies the mechanics of how several spellcasters can cooperatively cast one spell.

The base DC of the Reflex save is equal to the highest individual save DC among the cooperative casters, as determined by their relevant ability scores or other feats (such as Spell Focus), special abilities, or items. In this case, one wizard has Intelligence 18, which ties with a sorcerer's Charisma 18, so the base DC is 17 (10+3 for the spell's level +4 for the ability score modifier). The final save DC of the cooperatively cast fireball is 17+2+1+1 or 21. Whoever has the highest caster level determines the base caster check, which gains a +4 modifier.

Notice the bolded words -- all are singular. All refer to one single spell cast cooperatively by the four spellcasters.

From this, I conclude that when multiple spellcasters use cooperative spell, only one spell is being cast regardless of the number of spellcasters involved. Or, as Cheiromancer put it,

Does it mean that you and I cast just one spell: fireball?

Yes, that's what it means.

= = =

BTW, Cheiromancer made a small but significant typo in his transcription of the cooperative spell feat. He wrote:

A cooperative spell uses up a spell slot of the same level as the spell's caster level.

What it really says in Tome & Blood is "...as the spell's actual level." Just to clarify.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Whereas I read it as "the spell that you cast."

In other words, let the other casters worry about what happens to their spells. The description of the feat tells you what happens to your spell. It has its save DC pumped up, and gets a bonus to penetrate the target's spell resistance. The feat description also tells you when the spell (that is, your spell) gets this bonus: when an adjacent caster with the same feat casts the same spell at the same point at the initiative order.

In other metamagic feats, "the spell" is understood as referring to the one that the caster is applying the feat to. I think the same thing is true here. This reading also means that we don't have to make up house rule who the controller of the spell is.

BTW, thanks for catching that caster/actual error.