D&D 4E How does the 4E Barbarian Rage ability work?

[RigaMortus2]

You can rage at level 1... You just can't use Rage Strike (which is pretty weak compared to most dailys) until level 5.

Ok, so what does Rage do by itself that makes it worth having as opposed to Rage Strike?

Don't think of Rage Strike as a class feature. Think of it more as a way to waste a daily power that you'd never want to use.

Why would I ever choose a daily power that I never planned on using in the first place?

Besides, I'm sure there's bound to be a feat that lets you use Rage Strike x times per day/encounter without using up a daily power.

Later!
Gruns

Lets hope so!

 

[Larrin]

It isn't actually encouraging you to blow through you're dailies. A Fighter is perfectly able to blow through all of his dailies in one encounter, and will get the full benefit of every single one of them. Its up to the players self control to keep him from doing this. How is a barbarian, even with this ability, any different? He's not. He won't burn through his dailies all at once for the same reason the fighter won't. He just has a different option to use should he decide to blow through them.

In fact, i believe that the barbarian has less reason, even with rage strike, to "go nova" than other classes. For a barbarian, every daily has a cool ability associated with the rage, and sometimes the damage is speacial too (fire, cold, ongoing, etc.). Using Rage strike turns these neat powers into boring, pure damage. You trade an entire future encounters worth of rage for one moment of damage You aren't going to want to do this often. Certainly you shouldn't "just because you can".

Rage strike is there as an option, but its not supposed to be your first choice. Its for emergencies or just the right time, like all dailies are. If players start burning through their dailies "just because they can" its not because of bad design.


EDIT: it not for wasting dailies you'd "never" use, its for using dailies you don't need that moment/day, or feel like you can spare. its a trade, and one that should be made using some amount of thought.

 

[the8bitdeity]

the only reason barbarians have this feature is because of a problem that doesn't start until level 5, namely rages don't stack, so being in a rage kind of limits your ability to use other dailies. This is a problem no other class has (so far) so this is the first time we've seen delayed gratification from a class feature, but there is no reason to feel scared. rage strike is definitely not a focus of the class, its a minor feature that fixes what would otherwise be an annoying problem. It only exists because of the way they decided to do rage (well, thats my guess anyway), and i like the way they do rage, but it creates a situation where a barabarian doesn't really want to use more than one daily per encounter. Rage strike fixes this. Thats its whole point, and the only reason its there.

Bottom line: Not getting it until level 5 is irrelevant to the way the class plays up until that point. Its not like if a paladin couldn't use his divine challenge until level 5. That would be bad, and effect his tactics. This is like not being able to use a secound daily until level 5. This is how it works for everyone, and this is how it should be.

qft

 

[Gunpowder]

This new ability is interesting, but I wonder if it starts to have the old "15 minute adventuring day" creep back in.

Deliberately bringing in an ability that encourages using more than one daily power in a battle seems a little sketchy to me.

That's the thing, it does not encourage novaing any more than having more than one daily encourages you to burn them all in a fight. In fact without it the barbarian would be the only class so far that would be actually discouraged to use multiple dailies in a fight because they do not stack, and the effect of the second rage could be less effective than the first.

The true problem with rage strike is in its presentation. All other classes so far have had their first class feature be their thing to do their role. rogue's sneak attack, paladin's divine challenge etc. Here its just a stopgap to circumvent a limitation in the rage mechanic.
The other way would be to add a "Special: If you are already in a rage you can expend this for X[W] +str attack versus AC" for every single daily.

 

[RigaMortus2]

But the other strikers in the PHB have "extra damage" they can deal that do not expend any resources (Rogue's sneak attack, Ranger's Hunter's Quarry, and Warlock's curse), let alone cost that precious daily ability. If they wanted Barbarians to be a striker class, shouldn't they have a similiar mechanic? Perhaps there is an At-Will that I missed which generates the extra damage strikers are supposed to have.

 

[the8bitdeity]

Ok, so what does Rage do by itself that makes it worth having as opposed to Rage Strike?



Why would I ever choose a daily power that I never planned on using in the first place?



Lets hope so!

- persistent status based damage / effects dependent on rage

- conditional effects to at -wills and encounter power (howling strike can be used on a charge, charging and using howling strike while raging doesn't provoke OAs)

- ???

- profit

 

[the8bitdeity]

But the other strikers in the PHB have "extra damage" they can deal that do not expend any resources (Rogue's sneak attack, Ranger's Hunter's Quarry, and Warlock's curse), let alone cost that precious daily ability. If they wanted Barbarians to be a striker class, shouldn't they have a similiar mechanic? Perhaps there is an At-Will that I missed which generates the extra damage strikers are supposed to have.

I see the at-will Howling Strike:

Hit: 1[W] + 1d6 + STR MOD.

This means NO situational requirements, you just do extra damage with it.

Odd though that it's the only at will to add damage, I'm suspect you would always choose Howling Strike + 1 other.

 

[Gunpowder]

Barbarian's striker abilites:
free attacks after crits.
free charge after dropping targets
Very beefy at wills. howling strike as above. Another allows you to shift 2 and then push the target. Its like tide of iron and the rogue's hit and run at wills had a kid of awesome. the third gives you temp HP. more staying power=more smashing face power.

 

[Saeviomagy]

But the other strikers in the PHB have "extra damage" they can deal that do not expend any resources (Rogue's sneak attack, Ranger's Hunter's Quarry, and Warlock's curse), let alone cost that precious daily ability. If they wanted Barbarians to be a striker class, shouldn't they have a similiar mechanic? Perhaps there is an At-Will that I missed which generates the extra damage strikers are supposed to have.

The at will and encounter powers of the barbarian do more damage than other strikers. Partly because they're just better (ie - he gets a first level encounter that does 3[w], compared to the 2[w] the other strikers max out at. He gets an at-will that causes an extra 1d6 damage.) and partly because he has a big two hander supplying his [w] (so at first level, he can bust out a 6d6 hit every encounter, or make do with 3d6 attacks at will - equal to the rogue pre-feat).

Incidentally - his at-wills are probably the best in the entire game at what they do, by a long shot. We have one that gains an extra 1d6 damage per tier, one that lets you shift 2 squares (take that deft strike!) and then knock the foe back on a hit (and tide of iron!), and one that gives temp hitpoints equal to an already powerful stat.

Personally I don't think this is a particularly good way of doing things: it means that it's incredibly advantageous for other classes to pick up barbarian powers instead of their own. I'd expect that paragon multiclassing is going to become popular purely due to the power of barbarian abilities.

 

[Drakhar]

Yes he has an Encounter power that does 3[w] damage. However it also gives any attack against you a +4 bonus to hit you. I don't exactly call that 'better'.