It really depands on the creature involved and my mood at the time. In general, living creature (and undead regenerators) tend to "heal the would immediately", whereas undead, constructs, elementals and the like are either unharmed by the weapon or unhindered by the wound as whimsy strikes me. My players understand the ramifications either way.
How does your DR work?
- Thread starter Shadeydm
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WayneLigon
Adventurer
It depends on the creature. If it's protection was some kind of armor or tough hide, I'd go with 'you know, that blow should have opened him up from side to side, but instead it just bounces off'. If it's undead or some creature with an ooze-like consistancy, then I'll say things like 'You slash, parry, find an opening and drive your sword right through it's body. The creature laughs and tries to slide up the blade to get to you; it looks like it has no effect'.
Nyeshet
First Post
The 'heals immediately' idea I leave for things like Fast Healing and Regeneration.
Damage Reduction is a difficult concept to work with sometimes due to its nature of being somewhat inbetween natural armor and fast healing / regeneration. Typically, it seems to be used when the weapon should not affect the creature for some mystical reason. A silver weapon should harm a werewolf, so a non-silver one does not. However, in legends this was typically represented by the wound closing up even as it formed. The problem with using this, however, is that by the legends no damage should occur at all, rather than merely reduced damage. If we wanted to follow the legends more exactly, we would track the damage separately*, but that would be more effort than a fun game is worth. As it stands, DR as described (ie: doing less damage) is more evocative of armor than the "fast healing if caused by any source other than _____" of legends.
* By tracking separately, I mean the following:
Suppose a creature with 20 hp, DR silver, is attacked by two individuals - one with a silver weapon, one with an iron weapon.
The first round the creature takes 4 dmg from silver, 5 dmg from iron, for a total of 9. The creatures heals - say 3 pts per round - dmg caused by non-silver. Also, the dmg caused by non-silver cannot result in death - merely unconsciousness. So at the end of the round the creature has 6 dmg, for a total of 14 hp (16, -2 from non-silver). The next round the creature takes 5 more dmg from silver, but the iron wielder deals 11 dmg (crit). The creature has 11 hp, but due to non-silver dmg of 13 (11 this round, 2 last round not yet healed) it appears to have -2 hp and is unconscious. If the attackers turn away, thinking the creature vanquished, they will have a nasty shock next round as at the end of this round it will heal 3 non-silver dmg, restoring it to a seeming of 1 hp (still only 11 true hp, as non-silver dmg is tracked separately).
This is something a bit similar to regeneration, in a way, and it is much closer to the 'DR' of legendary monsters rather than what is currently used and meant by DR in the game. The current version (damage decreased by ___) is more akin to an armor variant rule stacked on top of current armor rules, thus giving the impression of an attack bouncing off and causing no harm, rather than the tension of an attack that seems to cause harm - but after a round or two has healed over.
How many, I wonder, would like it is DR was replaced with something akin to Regeneration? (ie: all damage is still counted, but unless it is by the type stated in DR it causes non-lethal damage, and if the creature is reduced to -10 by such non-lethal means its healing will eventually all it to fully recover, no matter how damaged it was)
There is one difference between traditional DR vs game Regeneration. In the game version you have to state all energies, etc that can by-pass it, while traditional DR tended to just presume that all energies the creature was not immune to would by-pass it. Werewolves could be burned, for instance, despite the fact that only silver weapons could harm them.
It actually went a bit beyond merely 'harming them,' however, as some legends suggested that wounds caused by silver were slower to heal - or might not heal at all (other than stopping bleeding, eventually). I wonder if that would weaken the power of Regen, if damage caused that cannot auto-regen (at the stated rate) took twice as long to heal as normal?
Damage Reduction is a difficult concept to work with sometimes due to its nature of being somewhat inbetween natural armor and fast healing / regeneration. Typically, it seems to be used when the weapon should not affect the creature for some mystical reason. A silver weapon should harm a werewolf, so a non-silver one does not. However, in legends this was typically represented by the wound closing up even as it formed. The problem with using this, however, is that by the legends no damage should occur at all, rather than merely reduced damage. If we wanted to follow the legends more exactly, we would track the damage separately*, but that would be more effort than a fun game is worth. As it stands, DR as described (ie: doing less damage) is more evocative of armor than the "fast healing if caused by any source other than _____" of legends.
* By tracking separately, I mean the following:
Suppose a creature with 20 hp, DR silver, is attacked by two individuals - one with a silver weapon, one with an iron weapon.
The first round the creature takes 4 dmg from silver, 5 dmg from iron, for a total of 9. The creatures heals - say 3 pts per round - dmg caused by non-silver. Also, the dmg caused by non-silver cannot result in death - merely unconsciousness. So at the end of the round the creature has 6 dmg, for a total of 14 hp (16, -2 from non-silver). The next round the creature takes 5 more dmg from silver, but the iron wielder deals 11 dmg (crit). The creature has 11 hp, but due to non-silver dmg of 13 (11 this round, 2 last round not yet healed) it appears to have -2 hp and is unconscious. If the attackers turn away, thinking the creature vanquished, they will have a nasty shock next round as at the end of this round it will heal 3 non-silver dmg, restoring it to a seeming of 1 hp (still only 11 true hp, as non-silver dmg is tracked separately).
This is something a bit similar to regeneration, in a way, and it is much closer to the 'DR' of legendary monsters rather than what is currently used and meant by DR in the game. The current version (damage decreased by ___) is more akin to an armor variant rule stacked on top of current armor rules, thus giving the impression of an attack bouncing off and causing no harm, rather than the tension of an attack that seems to cause harm - but after a round or two has healed over.
How many, I wonder, would like it is DR was replaced with something akin to Regeneration? (ie: all damage is still counted, but unless it is by the type stated in DR it causes non-lethal damage, and if the creature is reduced to -10 by such non-lethal means its healing will eventually all it to fully recover, no matter how damaged it was)
There is one difference between traditional DR vs game Regeneration. In the game version you have to state all energies, etc that can by-pass it, while traditional DR tended to just presume that all energies the creature was not immune to would by-pass it. Werewolves could be burned, for instance, despite the fact that only silver weapons could harm them.
It actually went a bit beyond merely 'harming them,' however, as some legends suggested that wounds caused by silver were slower to heal - or might not heal at all (other than stopping bleeding, eventually). I wonder if that would weaken the power of Regen, if damage caused that cannot auto-regen (at the stated rate) took twice as long to heal as normal?
Arkhandus
First Post
Well, D&D is not simple re-use of mythical creatures and such; the stuff is adapted to the game, so while legends would say that werewolves can only be killed by silver weapons, in D&D they're just fairly resistant to non-silver weaponry.
Joe the 1st-level warrior still isn't likely to kill a werewolf without a silver weapon; but Bob the 4th-level fighter is probably skilled enough and strong enough to manage with an ordinary steel greatsword, though it may still be rather tough.
Anyway, going by legends alone, there'd probably be a bunch of creatures that are invulnerable except to a very specific method of attack.
Joe the 1st-level warrior still isn't likely to kill a werewolf without a silver weapon; but Bob the 4th-level fighter is probably skilled enough and strong enough to manage with an ordinary steel greatsword, though it may still be rather tough.
Anyway, going by legends alone, there'd probably be a bunch of creatures that are invulnerable except to a very specific method of attack.
The_Universe
First Post
I use a combination of number 1 and 3, depending on the creature. It all depends on what sort of "feel" I'm trying to give the PC's foes.
It completely depends on the creature. Iron golem, option 1. An elemental or a treant or something, option 2. A lycanthrope, demon, or fey, option 3 usually.
...Now that I've read over the thread again, (Psi)SeveredHead's rule of thumb states how I tend to handle things very clearly.
...Now that I've read over the thread again, (Psi)SeveredHead's rule of thumb states how I tend to handle things very clearly.
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Ideally, I would use Arkhandus' system, as many others here seem to do. The idea of the wound closing immediately, except for Adamantine and a few other cases, appeals to me. It's good flavour, and fits the image of the real-world-mythology of such creatures, as has been pointed out.
But, as I have an overly pedantic mind, I am running into a problem here. If the weapon bounces of, the damage heals instantly, and, to quote Arkhandus, the blow causes only "the briefest feeling of pain and inconvenience" - how do you explain that it does not require a concentration check to continue casting a spell? There is that short moment of pain, after all. Why doesn't injury poison affect it? There is a wound, however briefly.
I am mostly concerned about the idea of the blow causing pain, regarding mechanical effects (concentration checks, mostly), but also flavour: does a puny fey hit in a bar-fight by an ogre's fist full into the face actually jerk backwards? Can it go on casting a spell or using a spell-like ability?
One way I could see this is to make the creature's entire body be something of the witch spot the Inquisitors of old tried to find: i.e. use a needle on the suspected witch's skin, and try and find a spot where it enters without causing pain or blood-flow. So, there is a wound, but no blood flow (hence, poison doesn't work), and no pain (hence, no concentration checks).
I'm not completely happy with that, and it leaves the problem for bludgeoning weapons, since the very momentum should have some effect. Whatever it hits will be thrown back at least a way, especially in the case of a small fey hit by a large fist...
Anyone have any other solutions to this?
But, as I have an overly pedantic mind, I am running into a problem here. If the weapon bounces of, the damage heals instantly, and, to quote Arkhandus, the blow causes only "the briefest feeling of pain and inconvenience" - how do you explain that it does not require a concentration check to continue casting a spell? There is that short moment of pain, after all. Why doesn't injury poison affect it? There is a wound, however briefly.
I am mostly concerned about the idea of the blow causing pain, regarding mechanical effects (concentration checks, mostly), but also flavour: does a puny fey hit in a bar-fight by an ogre's fist full into the face actually jerk backwards? Can it go on casting a spell or using a spell-like ability?
One way I could see this is to make the creature's entire body be something of the witch spot the Inquisitors of old tried to find: i.e. use a needle on the suspected witch's skin, and try and find a spot where it enters without causing pain or blood-flow. So, there is a wound, but no blood flow (hence, poison doesn't work), and no pain (hence, no concentration checks).
I'm not completely happy with that, and it leaves the problem for bludgeoning weapons, since the very momentum should have some effect. Whatever it hits will be thrown back at least a way, especially in the case of a small fey hit by a large fist...
Anyone have any other solutions to this?
