How Epic is Your RPG?

[GMMichael]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soKDyDjc3KQ

A little irony here: the video that Bethesda Softworks uses to depict the heroes you can play in its MMORPG, Elder Scrolls Online, contains lots of activities that you can't actually do in-game.

But our TRPGs can.

The questions: what is your favorite RPG, and does it enable you to do some of these crazy stunts like:

• dodging arrows while hanging from a sliding bridge
• chopping the dire blades from a huge demon's gauntlet
• taking two daggers in the gut, just to ignore the pain and slam your opponent into a wall
• grab and break massive chains with your telekinesis spell
• turn undead and lead an army of zombies?

 

[Umbran]

I don't have a single favorite RPG.

I note that in most games, "leading an army" of anything is not a single stunt. It is a sum of many actions. And most of the items on the list are for seasoned characters, not kids fresh off the farm cart.

Those caveats considered, one can easily do that in FATE, which kind of lends itself to some rather over-the-top stuff easily.

Meanwhile, in my Deadlands campaign, I can do most of those pretty easily. Leading armies of zombies is typically an NPC-only thing in that game, for implied-setting-metaphysics reasons. And we'd probably have to replace the demon with a steam-powered robot.

 

[Derren]

"Epic", or rather what passes as epic nowadays is boring and silly in my opinion as "Epic" isnt defined by the deeds of someone any more but by him breaking any form of logic DBZ style to fulfill (imo juvenile) power fantasies.
Taking two daggers into the stomach? You are dead and there is nothing epic about saying "You are so awesomely powerful that you can shrug that off"

 

[Umbran]

Don't be so down on power fantasies. In moderation, they are an element in a healthy approach to dealing with a modern stress-fulled life in which we have little power of our own.

I mean, really, when we sit down at a table, we are playing. We are not "seriousing".

 

[Bedrockgames]

"Epic", or rather what passes as epic nowadays is boring and silly in my opinion as "Epic" isnt defined by the deeds of someone any more but by him breaking any form of logic DBZ style to fulfill (imo juvenile) power fantasies.
Taking two daggers into the stomach? You are dead and there is nothing epic about saying "You are so awesomely powerful that you can shrug that off"

I have to agree with Umbran here. There is definitely a place for escapism and getting an opportunity to play a character untethered to the normal limits of every day life.

 

[GMMichael]

Don't take Derren the wrong way. What I'm hearing is "epic has gone too far off the deep end," instead of "all epic should die."

I have to agree and disagree. When I first heard about the Rise of Tiamat I thought, "well. WotC wants PCs to fight a dragon-god. That's pretty lame." But they didn't go for broken-epic, they went (to the extend of what I've read) for decent-epic: you don't fight Tiamat, you just fight her cult.

Did you see any of the Hobbit movies? Those fall into Derren's juvenile power fantasy category. Watching Legolas balance and hop across bobbing barrels in a river (and on someone's head?), while getting consistent kill-shots, was lame.

But the question remains: what RPGs can do that? Does the One Ring support that kind of play?

 

[Bedrockgames]

I guess my point is there is room in the hobby for a range. I like gritty films, like more grounded epic stuff as well but I also enjoy the barrel balancing in the Hobbit and wuxia larger than life swordsman. My view is it isn't juvenile to enjoy this kind of escapism. I honestly find it more juvenile to insist that all things must conform to a particular expectation (whether that be realism or epic heroism).​

 

[Umbran]

Those fall into Derren's juvenile power fantasy category.

My point is that "juvenile" should not be derogatory. As we grow, we do not leave behind what came before - we expand upon it. Throwing it away lessens us.

The major difference between a juvenile and an adult is that the adult has the choice of when to be juvenile. Seems to me that when you are sitting down to pretend to be elves is not the most sensible time to be snooty about power fantasies.

Not that you need your game to be a power fantasy - but don't be down on others who choose it.

 

[innerdude]

I think the lessening, or devaluing of "Epic" as a story pursuit or aim can be directly correlated to the "Michael Bay" effect---bigger, BIGGER!, more explosions, MORE EXPLOSIONS! does not an epic make.

The longer I stay in the RPG hobby, frankly, the less I am interested in "Epic!" as a play goal. I'm much more interested in the grounded, personal conflicts of individuals.

If those individual, personal conflicts lead to "Epic" stories as a natural result of playing them out, fantastic! But I'm not after "Epic" to start with.

I have zero interest in an "Epic" tier in any RPG I play. Heck, I barely have any interest in a "paragon" tier, to use 4e nomenclature.

My current system of choice barely lets characters enter what would be considered the low-end of 4e paragon tier----and that's PERFECT for me. I neither want, nor need more than that. I am more than willing to allow others to enjoy it as they will; I simply don't find any value in "Epic" gaming.

To answer the OP, my system choice easily allows for cool stunts and maneuvers.....but it's more on the Die Hard/John McClain level than at the Scorpion King/Clash of the Titans level. The Legolas "cinematics" in the LOTR movies is the upper limit, probably even a step or two beyond what I would consider to be "allowable" in my RPGs.

 

[Bedrockgames]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soKDyDjc3KQ

A little irony here: the video that Bethesda Softworks uses to depict the heroes you can play in its MMORPG, Elder Scrolls Online, contains lots of activities that you can't actually do in-game.

But our TRPGs can.

The questions: what is your favorite RPG, and does it enable you to do some of these crazy stunts like:

• dodging arrows while hanging from a sliding bridge
• chopping the dire blades from a huge demon's gauntlet
• taking two daggers in the gut, just to ignore the pain and slam your opponent into a wall
• grab and break massive chains with your telekinesis spell
• turn undead and lead an army of zombies?

I like to choose the best RPG for what it is I want in the campaign. Right now I am using my own system and I tailor it to each campaign or setting I work with. So sometimes that means totally mundane, grounded, gritty stuff (i.e. characters can die from a single gun shot, combat is quite lethal and focus tends to be more on characters). Other times I go more for a history setting that feels real but allows for the occasional epic moment (so think the old sword and sandals movies, where characters still bleed but big important stuff still happens). However other times I want super powerful magic wielders who are imbued with supernatural energy and very difficult to kill (campaigns where players are effectively immortal-like beings who can achieve greatness simply by virtue of having 'the gift').

Right now I am doing a wuxia game. This is pretty much modeled on the action of the wuxia movies from the late 60s to today and wuxia TV series. So dodging arrows while sliding down a bridge is a potential thing that might happen, taking two daggers in the gut also something that might happen (if you are a master, it might do nothing, if you are just starting to learn martial arts it might kill you). This is very much over the top, larger than life, epic swordplay. However despite all this there is still a great deal of focus on character interaction, politics, and role-play. The wuxia genre tends to operate that way. You have these action driven sequences but you also have interesting characters and story lines.

I also play games like D&D, Savage Worlds, Shadows of Esteren, etc. For each of these I find I want different things (in terms of epic potential).