How FAST should he turn evil? (Updated 2/9)

[Fulcan]

The black dagger..

..will most definitely detect evil also. This could speed up the confrontation between the party members.

You could use this confrontation to come up with another way to free his soul. The clerics church may know of a way (as mentioned earlier) that would involve some quests of some sort. This would give the player a way out if he didn't really want his character to turn evil.

 

[Kurzak T]

Great story-line here!

Here's my idea for the dagger. It's not really a power, but more of another temptation for him to overcome:

At some point when he's sorely wounded or in otherwise desparate straits, have the "dagger" communicate with him telepathically to offer him some of the power he's given it to help save him. "Master, allow me to assist you! I can use some of the power you have given me to help! Simply will it and it will be so."

Either by healing, or maybe a bull's strength, shield of faith, etc. Of course, accepting the offer draws "credits" out of his account. Maybe one soul per level of the spell cast.

Another option for an actual power: After a couple of kills, have the dagger start transferring some of the soul's power directly to him. He gains temporary positive levels (the opposite of negative levels) equal to 1/2 the "soul credit" for a certain amount of time. Of course, he's also only getting 1/2 credit for the soul, since he's siphoning off the rest for his own use.

Lots of great things you could do with an item like this... I love the idea!

 

[Numion]

My feeling is that people shouldn't forfeit their souls if they don't sign the contract of their own free will. Whats the point of devils being known for making contracts with "a fine print", if they can just *boom* charm someone into signing them?

The PC should be screwed anyway for willingly making out with an erinyes, though.

 

[Squire James]

Given how long the PC lingered with the Erinyes after making his first save, it doesn't sound like he was truly trying to avoid the situation... even to the point of actually inviting what happened. If this is your take on the situation, he voluntarily became evil at the point of the seduction. The soul-selling and the knife just puts some more icing on the cake.

If the PC was truly innocent of anything but failing the wrong Will save, then he is still evil but can recover his old alignment more quickly. Just break the compulsion, seek out an Atonement, and IMO the soul-sale (which is of dubious legality anyway) is off as well.

My "dark side" suspicion is that this was a Plot Railroad, and there was little the PC could have done to avoid the situation, Will saves or no. If this were the case, you probably wouldn't be asking us what to do next, because you would already have the Next Step plotted out!

 

[Rel]

The PC should be screwed anyway for willingly making out with an erinyes, though.

Oh he was most certainly that! The player said that his otherwise "useless" Endurance feat (a requirement to become a Royal Explorer) finally paid off.

Numion, in most circumstances, I agree with you. But this Erinyes Charm is not your grandmother's Charm Person. It is the sort that makes you betray your best friend or lay down your life for her without a thought. Moreover, if I had run things straight out of the MM, she could have done this every time she made eye contact with one of the PC's. A couple failed will saves and I could have had them killing each other and it may have been TPK city.

As it stood, I only had her use the Charm ability when she was intimate with the PC in question. The subtext of the conversation prior to his agreement was that he might (if he failed the save) wind up agreeing to some things he wouldn't ordinarily be keen on. He had, at very least, a vague idea of what he was...ahem..."getting into".

Plus, I gave the character a way (albeit an unsavory one) to get his soul back, the player seems to like the drama this has created for his character, if the cleric discovers it he'll have to decide where he comes down on the whole "redemption situation" and I'm having a ball with the whole plotline. So it is largely a win-win.

 

[Epametheus]

If that had been a succubus and not an erinyes, he'd be out-and-out dead. So being compelled to sell his soul isn't too bad a deal.

When I read your description of what the dagger really is, my first thought was Stormbringer. The dagger shouldn't be stupid; one of the first things it should do once it starts siphoning away power for its own purposes is something along the lines of Undetectable Alignment for itself and its wielder. Priests and paladins can't act against something that they don't know about.

Eventually, the dagger should acheive some means of self-propulsion; picture it floating across a battlefield, knifing the wounded for its own consumption. It should also hunger for the souls of the PCs friends and companions.

Did the erinyes have enough sense to program some sort of loyalty into the dagger? Once it grows strong enough, it may well start wanting to chow down on her.

Killing evil beings isn't too big a deal if they're going to Hell anyways, but trying to stay out of Hell by sending hundreds of people there in your place doesn't really work. The instant he starts accepting digested soul energy from the dagger, he's dived into the deep end.

 

[Rel]

My "dark side" suspicion is that this was a Plot Railroad, and there was little the PC could have done to avoid the situation, Will saves or no. If this were the case, you probably wouldn't be asking us what to do next, because you would already have the Next Step plotted out!

While I've been around these boards long enough to recognize this as a valid possibility, I'm going to have to plead my innocence here. The encounter with the Erinyes was planned, and she WAS going to profit from it. But how became a question. If the party refused to deal with her, she would have simply gone to the pack of devils chasing them and sold the party's location for a soul or two. The party would have evaded the devils (or not) or fought them (or not) and whatever would have happened could have happened.

The Erinyes only asked for a kiss (and therefore a means to try and Charm someone) and any party member could have supplied it. Only the Rogue/Royal Explorer was bold enough to give it a try (somewhat of a poor choice given his low Will save). The Cleric bestowed his Protective Ward ability on the PC giving the kiss and it preserved him from her Charm attempt.

She still wanted his soul and was persistant in extolling the quality of the information she had as well as touting her tremendous sexual skills. Finally her (entirely non-magical) seduction worked and, lured by desire and feeling like his chances were good given his earlier success, the PC went willingly to her (enormous) bed. He needed to roll a 13 to make the save. He rolled a 12. He even spent a "Fate Chip" to roll again and rolled a 7.

I'm not sure how much more free will I can give somebody than that.

Nonetheless, I still don't think that he immediately becomes Evil for that alone. It wasn't as though she said, "If you sell me your soul, I'll strike down your enemies, make you rich and Enlarge your private parts." and he said, "Yep." He was somewhat of a willing dupe who agreed to do something questionable (ok, VERY questionable) in order to gain some information that would help other people a lot more than it helped him.

I think he becomes Evil when he attempts to regain his own soul at the expense of others (i.e. when he uses the dagger).

And Epimetheus and Kurzak T, I've read your ideas and I like them a lot. I'll keep these in mind when I do the final design on how the dagger grows in power.

 

[herald]

Ok, I'm going with a Western Medieval mindset. Your morals may very. This is not a political statment based on real current religions.

He was Damned the moment he laid with her. He gave in to lust and slept with a Infernal creature, one that I'm sure he was warned about by a good priest that it would destroy his soul.

But I don't know how morals or the gods work in your world so, who knows.

But as soon as he gave in to temptation, I'd slam down the alignment change.

 

[LGodamus]

He could always suck it up, be a man and just go on with his life and pay his debt in the way he agreed. What I would do,however is different, I would not do her killing , if the soul was payable on death...do whatever i please ,but attempt to have a spell caster use a contingent sould bind spell or if he is a spellcaster himself ...try to become a good lich . Then the hellish hoochie would have to come fight you for your phlactery...

 

[Rel]

He could always suck it up, be a man and just go on with his life and pay his debt in the way he agreed. What I would do,however is different, I would not do her killing , if the soul was payable on death...do whatever i please ,but attempt to have a spell caster use a contingent sould bind spell or if he is a spellcaster himself ...try to become a good lich . Then the hellish hoochie would have to come fight you for your phlactery...

Looking at your Location field over there, I wonder if you speak from experience, LGodamus.