How have you handled this?

[tennyson]

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for a little insight on what people here on the boards have done with material not found in the core books:

My group is starting a new campaign soon (I'm the DM), and in the past we've found that allowing people to use spells, items, etc. from other sources (Dragon, Dungeon, etc.) led to problems. This campaign, we've restricted ourselves to the core rule books, along with the supplements as long as they run it by me.

My question is: as a DM, is it unfair to use a spell or something from say, an issue of Dragon, if I've preventing my players from using it? The reason we made the rule is that not everyone has the time or access to these resources that other players have, so I wanted to level the playing field. However, I've found some things in the past that add flavor to a campaign from these sources.

Do I run it by my players before using it (thereby ruining the surprise), do I allow the players access to it after the DM has used it, or do I just abide by the same rules and not use it at all?

Thanks for your help!

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Just ask them in a vauge manner "Hey guys, I know we have our limit, but I'd like to throw some NPC surprises at you. How would you feel if I could use other sources without consulting you? You would still need to consult with me about your PCs abilities/feats/PrCs/etc."

Then abide by what they say.

If they say "yes", be fair. Let them discover that odd spell or magic item from those sources to use.

 

[reveal]

I agree with BiggusGeekus. You need to ask your players and give your reasons behind using them when the players themselves cannot.

If I were a player in your game, I would argue against letting you use them. I think it contributes too much to a "DM vs. Players" mentality since you are allowed to use materials that you have specifically forbade the players from using.

 

[Cor Azer]

I would tend not to ask them beforehand. Once they've encountered it, then they're allowed to go looking for more information about it.

I like surprises. I like surprising my players. If they know everything that I can throw at them, where's the surprise?

The reason I limit what rules are used is not to stiffle the players - rather, it's just so that I can reasonably know what can be thrown at them. But the rule is their to control what the player characters can become - not what the general world can be.

But that said, I'll reiterate my first paragraph - after they've encountered a <race X> <class Y> with a <magic item Z> there's no reason why they can't get stuff from the source later on (well.. providing I think it's a balanced rule in the first place).

 

[cdsaint]

I'd say go ahead and use what you want, just bear in mind that if you include something then afterwords the PC's may well be able to make use of it. Obviously a wizard spell would be found in his spellbook, a sorcerer, cleric, or druid spell could be researched and then used by the PC's. Magic items are easy to re-use.

I would say use whatever you want to use, but once you've used it it's fair game for the PC's too.

Chris

 

[Sejs]

It's the ol' two way street - once you use it, they can use it.

 

[Bauglir]

Talk to your players, see how they feel about introducing new material to the game. Bear in mind that it may be unfair to your players even if you introduce new material, then let them use it after that point, as it may be impossible for them to benefit from it then, although they could have taken it earlier, and allowing retroactive changes would quickly become unworkable (new spells, and sorcerers spring to mind)

It's likely this won't be a big issue, but it's something to keep in mind perhaps

 

[tennyson]

If I were a player in your game, I would argue against letting you use them. I think it contributes too much to a "DM vs. Players" mentality since you are allowed to use materials that you have specifically forbade the players from using.

That mentaility is what I was afraid of. Our group has a great dynamic, and I wouldn't want to ruin that, especially since we've never thought of it as a versus-type game.

I think you guys have made some great suggestions, and talking with the players first sounds like the way to go. Then, once the material is used, it's open game for everyone involved. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Ibram]

I dont see any problem with the DM using things that the players are not permited to, if it serves the story... if its just used as an excuse to beat on the players then definatlty not.

 

[Psion]

My question is: as a DM, is it unfair to use a spell or something from say, an issue of Dragon, if I've preventing my players from using it?

That depends on why you were doing it? Did you give the character an in-campaign justification? Or did you just flat out say "we won't be using that in our campaign" and then use it yourself. The latter is, AFAIAC, dirty pool.

Now if you had said "there are some creatures in the game world that you may meet that might expose you to magic such as that (nudge wink), that would be an entirely different matter.

The reason we made the rule is that not everyone has the time or access to these resources that other players have, so I wanted to level the playing field. However, I've found some things in the past that add flavor to a campaign from these sources.

So, everyone has to buy something for anyone to use it? Feh. I find that an unreasonable qualification. Especially when you factor in the GM:

Do I run it by my players before using it (thereby ruining the surprise), do I allow the players access to it after the DM has used it, or do I just abide by the same rules and not use it at all?

Again, decide what exists where in your campaign, and if it reasonable to allow them to use it, then let their characters use it. In fact, using such arrangements can make for great character hooks, like letting the character be part of a secret cabal of wizards. To preserve the feel of surprise, that character might not share that knowledge until needed.

But if you think a particular rules bit is too potent (or imbalanced or inappropriate) for PCs, it should probably be off limits to NPCs, too.