D&D 5E How I ran combat in AD&D - doable in 5e?

[Blackbrrd]

When I DM-ed AD&D we didn't do combat with miniatures, usually either just a description or a really quick pencil drawing. I ran with facing, you could move to stop people from moving past you and all that fun stuff. It was more of a simulation than the tactical board game 4e is. A typical example would be if you played a Thief. You couldn't get behind somebody that where aware of you, they would just move back and/or turn.

Combat does get a lot more free-form and throwing a fireball when people where in melee range was not something you did with a light heart.

I am starting to wonder if it would be doable to run it a bit more like that in 5e? Instead of running it on a grid, just do it free-form and use push-backs and similar tactics to actually get behind mobs.

I forsee some problems trying to run it like this. For instance, we usually had some discussions about where peoples characters actually where - or where my monsters where.

On the other hand, you describe what you are trying to do the same way you would describe it when role playing, instead of counting squares and doing small 5' pushes.

Would you play in a game without miniatures where most of the combat is just described in words and sketched quickly on a piece of paper?
- Where mobs close ranks to intercept your run-by out of turn and you need to come up with a reason why you can move past your opponents?
- Where the DM's decision about what is actually happening probably probably weighs a bit more than the players?
- Where simulation takes a front seat to gamist approaches?

 

[shadowmane]

I could play in such a game. And I think it could work even with the Next rules as they are now.

 

[Steely_Dan]

One of the things I am most enjoying is battles not being Chutes/Snakes & Ladders as 4th Ed (and 3rd to a lesser agree) is.

D&D Miniatures is a great game, but separate from D&D the RPG.

 

[Neonchameleon]

When I DM-ed AD&D we didn't do combat with miniatures, usually either just a description or a really quick pencil drawing. I ran with facing, you could move to stop people from moving past you and all that fun stuff. It was more of a simulation than the tactical board game 4e is. A typical example would be if you played a Thief. You couldn't get behind somebody that where aware of you, they would just move back and/or turn.

I disagree that playing without a map makes something more of a simulation. Actually knowing where people are makes for a better simulation. And it's assumed that generally aware people turn round in 4e. But, judging from my ongoing 5e campaign, it is certainly possible to run 5e without a battlemap - after all that's the way I'm running it. It speeds things up. (On the other hand I'd never run 4th without a battlemap because it actually gains things from it).

 

[am181d]

This is how I ran the Next game I ran this past weekend. (And it's how I ran a lot of 3rd edition and even 4th edition.) It worked fine.

 

[Steely_Dan]

I disagree that playing without a map makes something more of a simulation. Actually knowing where people are makes for a better simulation.

Depends on the type of simulation you're after.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

You can do this style of combat with all editions. 3E and 4E lose a bit more in the translation than the other editions, though. 4E in particular doesn't reach it's full combat potential without a grid, but you can still use "theater of the mind"-style play with a flexible DM and apply most of the relevant abilities.

 

[shadowmane]

Well I, for one, have never played in a D&D game using miniatures or grids. To me, they aren't necessary as long as the DM is descriptive enough.

 

[GX.Sigma]

It definitely is, but some of the rules are not there yet. The sequential initiative system conflicts with this playstyle (when you encounter 1d4+1 kobolds, rolling initiative takes longer than the actual fight!), and the dungeon-time-tracking rules are missing. I copy+pasted some rules from classic D&D, and it works beautifully.

Here's an exploration rules crib sheet I made:

1 turn = 10 minutes


Things that can take a turn:

• Move at 2x tactical speed including mapping, 10x walking through familiar areas
• Search room (20’ square per party member) (have fun deciding whether this includes secret doors, traps, etc; OSRIC has them as three separate things)
• Rest

Combats generally take a negligible amount of time at this scale. If the party decides to rest, that takes up the whole turn.

every 2 turns: wandering monster check (1 in 6)

• Monsters start 2d6 x 10 feet away from the party (if that somehow becomes important)
• Usually, monsters are chosen ad hoc from nearby caves, but for an element of chaos:

[U]Wandering Monster(s)                                           2d6[/U]
Kobold survivors (3d4)                                          2
Goblin patrol (2d4)                                             3
Hobgoblin patrol (2d4)                                          4
Kobold dragonshields (1d6+1)                                    5
Bugbear ambush (1d4)                                            6
Orc raiders (1d4+1) / outdoor: 1d6 orcs vs. 1d6 hobgoblins      7
Gnoll pack (2d4)                                                8
Undead (1d4 skeletons and 1d4 zombies)                          9
Stirges (1d4+2)                                                 10
Cultists (1d4 acolytes and 1 adept)                             11
Cave Troll (indoor) or owlbear (outdoor)                        12

note: this table was created for the Caves of Chaos with no regard to encounter building guidelines

Here's a set of initiative rules I considered, but haven't had the chance to use per se (though I'm sure they'd work fine)

1. Declare action
2. Roll initiative
3. Resolve action
4. Repeat until end of combat

1: The DM explains the situation and asks "what do you do?", just like any other situation. The players describe, in simple terms, their intended actions. The DM should have something in mind for the NPCs' actions.

2: One player (the 'caller') rolls 1d20 on behalf of the whole party (give them the init bonus of the character in front, the highest dex character, the party's average, or no bonus). The monsters, assuming they're acting as a group, do the same.

Exception: If any participants are surprised, they do not roll for initiative and do not act in this round. The DM may have some participants automatically win or lose initiative without rolling.

3: Each character in the group that won the roll (in whatever order is convenient) carries out their action, then the other group(s) do the same.

4: Repeat steps 1-3 until the end of the encounter.

I would use this alongside sequential initiative (to paraphrase another poster: sometimes you want to run a fight in bullet time).

 

[shadowmane]

If its a big combat, doing a simple party initiative is probably better. Of course, I still use D6 for initiative.