How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition

[Ariosto]

So, a suddenly rapid-firing crossbow or a "boomerang" dagger is not magical ... and just calling it that "is scratching some degree of cool out of the game."

Likewise, apparently, the game lacked "cool" before spells and items were "nerfed".

 

[Mad Mac]

So, a suddenly rapid-firing crossbow or a "boomerang" dagger is not magical ... and just calling it that "is scratching some degree of cool out of the game."

Boomerang Dagger? You can use a magical dagger to make multiple thrown attacks because returning is now an inherent property of magical throwing weapons. Otherwise you'd need a pile of throwing daggers to use Blinding Barrage, if that is what you mean.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Nothing.

That's what I thought.

"Did Robin Hood use magic?" doesn't prove that Robin Hood, as you envision him didn't use magic, unless you avoid leaving out the specifics that are being questioned.

I would be happy to agree that Robin Hood is not popularly assumed to use magic if you are happy to agree that he is not popularly assumed to be able to split an arrow any time he tries. My case is not that Robin Hood used magic (as you contend), but that IF Robin Hood can split an arrow any time he tries THEN Robin Hood is using magic. And I believe that I have been clear about that.


RC

 

[Ariosto]

Boomerang Dagger? You can use a magical dagger to make multiple thrown attacks because returning is now an inherent property of magical throwing weapons. Otherwise you'd need a pile of throwing daggers to use Blinding Barrage, if that is what you mean.

Do you mean that, as Blinding Barrage in fact does not require a pile of throwing daggers, a dagger becomes magical when a rogue so employs it?

 

[Mad Mac]

Do you mean that, as Blinding Barrage in fact does not require a pile of throwing daggers, a dagger becomes magical when a rogue so employs it?

From the PHB FAQ

14. I am using a magical thrown weapon as part of an area of effect power. If I am attacking multiple enemies within that area, do I need multiple weapons, or will one suffice?

One is enough in this case. Magical thrown weapons return to you after each attack, so you’ll be able to use it against each enemy as part of using your power.

And from the Players Handbook

If you are using a projectile weapon to make a close attack, you need one piece of ammunition for each target, and if you're using thrown weapons, you need one for each target.

 

[Ariosto]

Thanks, Mac! The PHB page number would be handy; it's nice (to me) to see that sorted out, as I have not seen it actually applied. The ROF for the crossbow, at least, is utterly bizarre (perhaps even with superhuman strength) ... and the "close attack" condition is odd.

 

[Mad Mac]

Page 271 of the PHB. Now that I look, it has the same language under "area attack" so it's not just for close attacks.

Blinding Barrage with a crossbow can be a bit odd, but it's an edge case that I've never seen come up in actual play. The only viable way to play a crossbow Rogue is to go the "sniping with stealth" route, while Blinding Barrage is an "in your grill" power that appeals mostly to dagger Rogues.

Really, the crossbow in 4E works the way it does because it would be completely hosed compared to other ranged weapons otherwise. If I had a player who used a lot of crossbow multi-attack powers I'd probably just flavor it as him having a sweet "customized" repeater style crossbow. He wouldn't get multiple attack with it outside of powers because no-one in 4th gets multiple attacks without powers.

 

[Ariosto]

Being so astoundingly good that you can cling to the underside of glass is not magic.

Well, it's not Boots of Spider Climbing, anyway.
What's the rogue power for that?

 

[RefinedBean]

My case is not that Robin Hood used magic (as you contend), but that IF Robin Hood can split an arrow any time he tries THEN Robin Hood is using magic. And I believe that I have been clear about that.

's not a case, 's an opinion.

Make your case for it, just like we've been making cases for CaGI. We'll still disagree, because it all comes back to personal preference and opinion. You can use terms like "common parlance" and dive deep into the wonderful world of logic and systems, but in the end...it's all about preference. No getting away from it.

 

[FireLance]

My case is not that Robin Hood used magic (as you contend), but that IF Robin Hood can split an arrow any time he tries THEN Robin Hood is using magic. And I believe that I have been clear about that.

As a supplement to Clarke's Law, it appears that any sufficiently advanced skill is also indistinguishable from magic.