How important should Stuff (tm) be?

[JRRNeiklot]

Stuff? Let's see, a sword (or mace or pointy stick) should be neccesary, armor should help out a lot, that's about it. A bunch of crap +2 here, +4 there, +86 here, but wait that doesn't stack with the +2 from over yonder should not and the bastards that designed all the modifiers should be forced to watch cable tv infomercials for a week straight.

 

[IceFractal]

There's five main ways to reduce stuff:

1) Make no other changes, ignore the significant problems this causes.
2) Stick to low levels, where stuff is not as big a factor.
3) Ask the players to play non-stuff-dependant characters like VoP Monks, Druids, and Psions.
4) Give virtual stuff. If the Fighter could normally afford +2 Armor, give them a +2 defense bonus from training instead. If the Wizard could normally afford several pearls of power, just give them extra slots. You can do this either very generally (class defense bonuses, more skills, reserve points, faster stat gain), or very specifically (figure out what items appropriate to their training style they could afford, give them those bonuses).
5) Tone down the monsters. Either have them fight humanoids who are equally stuff-deficient, or - if using other monsters - drop their stats to a level comparable to the previously mentioned humanoids. In addition, you can compensate for less healing and less wands/scrolls by reducing the number of encounters per day.


These all have their problems:

1) This causes a number of imbalances and possible TPKs.
2) You can only stay at low levels for so long until you have to restart the campaign.
3) There are a very limited number of non-stuff-dependant classes, and VoP is exalted-only.
4) You have to do a fair amount of work to figure out what's an equivalent bonus, and figure out a way to explain how they got it.
5) Casters will dominate other types from mid-level on. Also, some categories of creatures (most undead, for instance) are practically unusable.


However, I think #4 and #5 are both pretty solid methods to reduce item dependance. And they don't have to be taken 100% of the way - you could give 1/3 treasure and use #4 or #5 to compensate for the rest.

 

[FireLance]

Stuff is only important if you can not or do not adjust for its lack or its excess (compared to the baseline assumptions, at least).

It seems almost blindingly obvious, but the more equipment the PCs have, the more easily they will be able to overcome the challenges they face, and the less equipment they have, the more difficult the challenges will be.

If your PCs have equipment at or close to the standard wealth levels, you can generally gauge the difficulty of a fight by comparing party level to monster CR.

If you want to run a campaign with lower or higher levels of wealth, the CR system won't work as well, and you may have to eyeball the specifics of the creature against the PCs' specific abilities to ensure that the fight will be as easy or as hard as you like. This is no different from what DMs generally had to do prior to the CR system, but the need to do likewise in 3e is seen by some to be a failure of the system, instead of recognizing that you aren't going to be any worse off than before if you don't follow the standard assumptions.

 

[Gold Roger]

Stuff is overevaluated in 3.5 by it's haters, it's lovers and the designers. Up to level 5 D&D can be played with about no changes and without magic items. From then on there's thousands of workarounds that let you use all other systems (like the CR system) just as though you where using the standart wealth guidelines.

One his a higher ability scores. The main reason stuff is needed is: Saves, AB, AC, Damage, Spell DC etc. See the patern? All of those are dependend on ability scores. Increase the rate of ability score increases by level and the characters scale exactly the way "christmas tree characters" would.

Magic items can all be easily pooled into one as well. Mechanically there little difference between a Fighter with belt of giant strength, Ring of protection, + flaming burst holy lgreatsword, periapt of health etc. and a fighter that carries one ancestral longsword that gained the properties of all those items over time through campaign intern events. But the flavor and implication for the game world is totally different.

Once struck at from the right angle the whole "items in 3.5" problem falls to dust quickly. It's all a question of personal preference and a willingness to make minor adjustments to the game.

 

[Steverooo]

Being stuffless is supposed (according to some folks whose opinions I respect) to reduce your CR by about four... Personally, I have trouble seeing how an unarmed, unarmored PC can do much, ESPECIALLY against a DRed opponent, but... there it is. You can try it, and see what you think.

As for me, I have adopted another method, and had no problems with it. Here is my solution.

I did not eliminate magic items, especially potions & scrolls. Permanent magic items became rare, but still exist. Finding any is still a problem, though.

Instead, as the PCs go up in level, instead of getting magical gear, they can develop their own magic. Instead of killing an enemy and taking his +1 sword, a PC can spend 2,000 GP going through the required ceremonies, and any MWed weapon he wileds will become magical...

He draws his MW Two-Handed Sword, it becomes magical. He sheathes it as he moves up, drawing his bow, and it (and its arrows) become +1. If he has Improved Unarmed Strike and is surprised without a weapon in hand, he can attack with his +1 fist (or both, if he has TWF), ASSUMING...

Note, here, that a +1 magic weapon costs 1,000 GP, plus MW costs, plus weapon cost. I made it 2,000 GP because it works with ANY weapon, AND because someone with TWF will gain the bonus to both, AND because (unlike typical magical weapons), it can't be taken away!

Also, the surprised Fighter, above, attacking with his fists is in for a nasty surprise, as they are NOT MW (a Monk doesn't have that problem). If the PC pays 1,000 GP extra (twice the 500 GP MW Cost), then ANY stick he picks up is a +1 Club, and his fists are +1 magic weapons, as well. If not, only MW weapons become enchanted.

As levels increase, additional abilities can be added (no magical abilities can be added to weapons until they are +1). If the Paladin who has previously spent 3,000 GP making any weapon he wields +1, then he can spend twice the book price to make them all Holy, as well. If he dual-wields a Handaxe with his sword, and wants to make it Returning, as well, then that costs normal price (as it doesn't work on most types of weapons, so the cost isn't doubled). With a little care on the price, the weapons problem is solved.

Want to overcome the "Golfbag of Weapons" problem, Casey Jones? Spend twice the 500 GP MW cost, twice the 1,000 GP +1 cost, and add in twice the Adamantine, Cold Iron, and Silver costs, as well. The only things that can stop you now are Alignment differences. You can buy the ones you want for double price, straight from the DMG, or buy (for example) Anarchic & Axiomatic at the normal price (since only one applies at a time). Myself, I wouldn't allow a Paladin to wield an Anarchic/Evil weapon, nor a CN Cleric an Axiomatic one, but a little Common Sense (which is really sense about common things, and not really all that common) goes a long way, here.

For armor, again, you can pay 1x the MW cost for the most expensive suit you want it to apply to, or it will only work on MW suits. Then pay 1x the +1 magic armor cost, and any (MW) armor you put on will be enchanted. Same with shields and shield enhancement bonuses.

Now to all the other stuff... Some GMs feel like adding to the costs, because the "items" can't be taken away. I don't, as most of them just aren't all that useful. Double cost is just too much, IMHO. Maybe +10%, or something, if you must. Also remember that, unlike magic items, you can't sell off this type of bonus, either!

Anyway, if a Druid is going off into the desert, and wants a Decanter of Endless Water, he can get himself a bottle, or whatever, and pay the same cost, and have any (MW) bottle act as one. He could even pay the MW & Natural Armor DMG prices and make his own hide naturally armored, then pay the Enhancement Bonus prices on that, and use the higher of his/his shape's NAB, and add the Enhancement Bonus, in any case.

Saving throws? Pay the price of a (magical!) Cloak/Ring, and Presto! Going up against Aberrations? Add the Bane property to your weapons.

Single use items (Arrows of Slaying, Beads of Force, Dusts, etc.) remain as they are, one-shot items. Anything else, you can learn to do yourself.

Now, when the PCs kill the BBEG, they will find that his Hammer of Thunderbolts is just a plain old (or possibly MW) hammer, and that it was the BBEG, himself, who made it rock! Rogues who remember will ALL be wanting a Vest of Escape.

I have used the DMG Magic Items prices, with no other changes than doubling the Magic Weapons costs (since the bonus now applies to any weapon held, and most PCs have several), and had no problems.

The TWO problems you may have are with trying to run adventures where the PCs' equipment is SUPPOSED to be removed (A4 is much easier), and with treasure (as fewer magic items will be given away, so more gems, jewelry, etc., will need to be).

Incedentally, if you have Knuk, or Mariliths, or some other multi-armed critters, you will need to charge X times the magic weapons cost, where X is the number of limbs capable of wielding weapons, to keep things in check... Just FYI!