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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 6054379" data-attributes="member: 6689464">Well I do, it is about the first class I try on every new edition I go. Though I tend to play them the wrong way it seems. Most of the time I play them with CHA->DEX->INT->WIS->STR->CON, though one time I dumped int (except on 4e as it doesn't work that way). But the first time I played a PF bard it became apparent something was wrong, on 3.5 you didn't need to focuss so high on Int, Bardic knowledge worked well, you only losed between 2 and 3 points against fully trained people in knowledge checks, in PF Bardic lore is only good if you actually train knowledge skills (and it becomes moot by higher levels when you just become able to use all skills untrained, so there is no synergy between the abilities), and it becomes a high investment on skill points.Versatile Performer is just as bad, while in principle being able to substitute a skill for others sounds good, many of the substituted skills are skills you are bound to train anyway from level one (Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense motive and Acrobatics). And having a hard coded mechanic to use perform on different ways hurts improvisation. Fascinate, I really really lament the way it was nerfed, before it was a cool way to keep enemies from fleeing the battlefield, now it is a waste of your standard action, and IMO the removal of perform checks from it took away a lot of flavor. And with such a weakened Fascinate, Persuassion is harder to use. On general the way they changed bardic performance just added extra bookepping for little real benefit.</blockquote>

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