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<blockquote data-quote="ProfessorCirno" data-source="post: 5485957" data-attributes="member: 65637">Actually, farmboy vs hero is interesting.&nbsp; And it's tied to skills!You go back to original, old-as-it-gets-school D&amp;D, and adventurers weren't farmboys.&nbsp; The Fighting Man was a seasoned veteran.&nbsp; The Magic User had finished his apprentice training.&nbsp; They weren't wet behind the ears sops, they were professional thieves and looters that went into a dungeon to rob the hell out of it.Likewise, skills were generally acted out rather then rolled for - and at most you rolled your attribute.&nbsp; The game was highly narrative, not &quot;simulationist.&quot;&nbsp; There was no tie ropes skill - you were an adventurer, you knew how to tie a damn knot!Slowly - and I think it peaked in 2e - the general idea reversed.&nbsp; I attribute this in part to skills.&nbsp; When 2e gave us NWPs, it was amazing to see how many adventurers suddenly couldn't tie knots or swim since they didn't have the NWP for it.&nbsp; There were rules for everything, and the basis of the game was built on &quot;simulationism&quot; more then anything else.In 3e we had the same skill problems, where level 20 fighters couldn't tie a knot or knew how to swim, but the game was drifting away from &quot;everyone's a level -1 NPC at the start.&quot;&nbsp; You had NPC classes to illustrate how the PCs were different - and better - then they were.4e is if anything far closer to the super old school then 3e/2e is.&nbsp; Adventurers are already seasoned veterans to some point, and the skills the roll are the ones you need actual conflict resolution for.&nbsp; You don't need a separate &quot;tie knots&quot; skill because, as was so long ago, you're an adventurer!&nbsp; You don't need a &quot;know how to hitch together rope&quot; skill, that's something you already have.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ProfessorCirno, post: 5485957, member: 65637"] Actually, farmboy vs hero is interesting. And it's tied to skills! You go back to original, old-as-it-gets-school D&D, and adventurers weren't farmboys. The Fighting Man was a seasoned veteran. The Magic User had finished his apprentice training. They weren't wet behind the ears sops, they were professional thieves and looters that went into a dungeon to rob the hell out of it. Likewise, skills were generally acted out rather then rolled for - and at most you rolled your attribute. The game was highly narrative, not "simulationist." There was no tie ropes skill - you were an [I]adventurer[/I], you knew how to tie a damn knot! Slowly - and I think it peaked in 2e - the general idea reversed. I attribute this in part to skills. When 2e gave us NWPs, it was amazing to see how many adventurers suddenly couldn't tie knots or swim since they didn't have the NWP for it. There were rules for everything, and the basis of the game was built on "simulationism" more then anything else. In 3e we had the same skill problems, where level 20 fighters couldn't tie a knot or knew how to swim, but the game was drifting away from "everyone's a level -1 NPC at the start." You had NPC classes to illustrate how the PCs were different - and better - then they were. 4e is if anything far closer to the super old school then 3e/2e is. Adventurers are already seasoned veterans to some point, and the skills the roll are the ones you need actual conflict resolution for. You don't need a separate "tie knots" skill because, as was so long ago, you're an adventurer! You don't need a "know how to hitch together rope" skill, that's something you already have. [/QUOTE]

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