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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5489728" data-attributes="member: 22779">DannyA - just a nitpick, but, Conan was the last son of Atlantis and most certainly NOT a "normal Joe".  But, then again, if you define Conan as a Normal Joe, then, yeah, we're not going to have any point of comparison.  Particularly when you count Batman/Bruce Wayne as a "Normal Joe" as well.Just on a side note, since it's come up a few times, let's do a side by side comparison of character capabilities between editions.  After all, there's been a couple of comments that 4e is what has changed the equation and that now, in 4e suddenly fighters are no longer "Normal Joes".We'll use the same baseline in every edition - Fighter 1 with an 18 (possibly percentile - /01) strength.1e - Our fighter using a longsword is doing 11 points of damage on a hit (7 on average).  Which means he is killing outright any 1 HD creature and quite possibly killing 2 HD creatures in a single shot.  Considering that 1HD and 2HD creatures (or less) make up the bulk of encounters at this level, he can pretty much one shot most things he meets.  Note, a standard warrior in this edition is a 0 level Man at Arms and actually does about half as much damage on a hit and cannot possibly survive a max damage attack by any of the creatures that a Fighter 1 can.Fighter is well above the norm.Second Edition.  It's ironic that the edition that purported to be the most about "role play" gives us the most powerful iteration of fighter.  F1 with Longsword and specialization is doing 13 points of damage in the first round and 26 in the second.  He's outright killing anything with 1 HD, most likely killing anything with 2 HD and in the second round, outright killing anything with less than 3 HD.Interestingly, if you use an Ogre, the F1 is now doing 17 and 34 points of damage, meaning he's likely to kill an average ogre in the first round and any ogre in the second.Again, standard warrior is a 0 level Man at Arms capable of doing a maximum of 8 points of damage with a longsword.Fighter is still well above the norm.Third Edition.  Things start to go a bit south at this point.  We'll give our fighter a greatsword and Power Attack (nothing out of the ordinary here) and he's doing 18 points of damage on a single hit.  Looking through the CR 1 and CR 2 creatures, he's one shotting pretty much anything in the SRD.  Although, to be fair, he's not doing in an Ogre at this point.Normal warrior is a 1st level Warrior, again, this time doing 10 points of damage (assuming also using a greatsword).  Fighter is still well ahead of the curve.Fourth Edition.  I'm actually not as well versed in 4e mechanics, but, F1 using greatsword is doing 14 points of damage.  Other than minions, he cannot kill anything in a single hit.  Nothing that our F1 typically faces at this level can be killed outright by the F1.There is no real baseline warrior though here.  The MM does give a town guard statblock, but, that's not really applicable.  But, it is interesting to note that our F1 is now the weakest of any edition.Yet, people keep telling me that 4e characters are superhuman.  Very strange.</blockquote>

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