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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5494197" data-attributes="member: 42582">These are good examples - and not just for taking us back to the relevant literature, but for pointing out how martial characters can have abilities that are the functional equivalent of D&D magic (resistance to curses, preternatural balance) although they are, in the story, not anything other than a manifestation of their martial prowess.The issue isn't whether or not the PC can achieve it if the GM is very generous, and/or if the player in question rolls three 20s in a row. The question is whether it is a baseline for a martial PC, as it is a baseline for Batman.To reiterate - I don't think anyone on this thread is saying that, in the fictional world of DC comics, Batman is a supernatural being. They're saying that, by the standards of the real world he is a fantastic being. And that there is no reason why RPG PCs shouldn't be able to be similarly fantastic in what they can do, even if within the gameworld they are not supernatural.3E, with its requirement that martial abilities be handled via skill checks rather than the auto-success associated with spells, doesn't do this.Skill rolls aren't another matter - they are the very matter at hand! In 3E, a fighter can only climb if his/her player makes a successful roll on a d20, whereas a wizard can climb with no chance of failure if his/her player has ticked the "spider climb" box at the start of play. So the player who has opted to bring Merlin to the table is better able to emulate Batman than is the player who has opted to bring Batman to the table. This is the problem KM is talking about.The solution, as KM says, is to give martial PCs powers that don't require good dice rolls in order for those PCs to fill their designated roles:Another good example to add to the examples of balance and curse resistance given by Ultimatecalibur.Fully agreed.</blockquote>

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