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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5496920" data-attributes="member: 18280">Note the first quote.&nbsp; It doesn't say, &quot;In no film does Bond fail his primary mission&quot;.&nbsp; It says, &quot;James Bond does not end his movies with &quot;And then the villains won, THE END&quot;.In OHMSS, Bond beats the villians repeatedly.&nbsp; He prevents Blofeld's main scheme.&nbsp; And then the villians won, THE END.&nbsp; That's the film.&nbsp; Losing at X doesn't somehow negate winning at Y.&nbsp; Losing at X or Y doesn't negate winning at Z.Now, let us cast our eyes on Casino Royale, which is an interesting counter-point to OHMSS.&nbsp; In CR, Bond does fail in both his primary mission, and in his primary desire.&nbsp; BUT the film ends with &quot;And then James Bond won, THE END.&nbsp; And it is a very similar &quot;Then X won&quot; in both of the given films.&nbsp; Both X's have had something precious taken away from them, but were able to get a modicum of revenge.But, IF one is to say that the ending of OHMSS doesn't count as a win for Blofeld, THEN it is unfair to say that the ending of CR is a win for Bond.&nbsp; Because these films parallel each other in this way, it is impossible to say (with a straight face, anyway) that both end with Bond winning.Either way, there is a clear indication that Bond can, and does, lose.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5496920, member: 18280"] Note the first quote. It doesn't say, "In no film does Bond fail his primary mission". It says, "James Bond does not end his movies with "And then the villains won, [B]THE END[/B]". In OHMSS, Bond beats the villians repeatedly. He prevents Blofeld's main scheme. And then the villians won, [b]THE END[/b]. That's the film. Losing at X doesn't somehow negate winning at Y. Losing at X or Y doesn't negate winning at Z. Now, let us cast our eyes on [I][B]Casino Royale[/B][/I], which is an interesting counter-point to OHMSS. In CR, Bond does fail in both his primary mission, and in his primary desire. BUT the film ends with "And then James Bond won, [B]THE END[/B]. And it is a very similar "Then X won" in both of the given films. Both X's have had something precious taken away from them, but were able to get a modicum of revenge. But, IF one is to say that the ending of OHMSS doesn't count as a win for Blofeld, THEN it is unfair to say that the ending of CR is a win for Bond. Because these films parallel each other in this way, it is impossible to say (with a straight face, anyway) that both end with Bond winning. Either way, there is a clear indication that Bond can, and does, lose. RC [/QUOTE]

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